On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

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On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

4.15 of 5 stars 4.15 · rating details · 2,021 ratings · 277 reviews

The twentieth century, with its bloody world wars, revolutions, and genocides accounting for hundreds of millions dead, would seem to prove that human beings are incredibly vicious predators and that killing is as natural as eating. But Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, a psychologist and U.S. Army Ranger, demonstrates this is not the case. The good news, according to Gros...more

Paperback, 367 pages

Published December 1st 2003 by Back Bay Books (first published 1995)

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Oct 10, 2012 Brooke rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Ok I loved and hated this book. I guess you could say I hated it because the truth hurts.. but I loved it because It REALLY opened my eyes to how(my hubby) feels everyday. It really helped me understand him and the thoughts that he has more clearly.

I was let down though, the reason... I was really hoping that it would tell me how to handle all of this and it doesn't it only explains the effects, not how to deal. So in some ways fantastic others a let down. I do recommend others read it though i...more

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Jul 08, 2008 Quinnp1 rated it 4 of 5 stars

As a combat vet myself, I can't say I learned anything new from this book as I have lived it all myself,. Yet I strongly suggest you all read it carefully.It will enlighten you to a very important aspect of humanity and the survival instinct that few understand. There is a price for killing and there is a very effective "military machine" to teach the acceptance and support of killing that is a thousand years or more old.That mind altering thousand year plus mind forming machine is set against a...more

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Jun 17, 2008 Jake rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: anthropology, psychology, warfare

I first became aware of On Killing when Tony Blauer referenced it at one of his PDR seminars, and have heard a fair amount of good press since then. It’s one of those books that martial artists/self-defense junkies seem to like to talk about, or at least, claim to have read, and I figured it was time I finally saw what all of the fuss is about.

On Killing is the first of Col. Grossman’s works on “killology”, which he defines as “the scholarly study of the destructive act, just as sexology is the...more I first became aware of On Killing when Tony Blauer referenced it at one of his PDR seminars, and have heard a fair amount of good press since then. It’s one of those books that martial artists/self-defense junkies seem to like to talk about, or at least, claim to have read, and I figured it was time I finally saw what all of the fuss is about.

On Killing is the first of Col. Grossman’s works on “killology”, which he defines as “the scholarly study of the destructive act, just as sexology is the scholarly study of the procreative act. In particular, killology focuses on the reactions of healthy people in killing circumstances (such as police and military in combat) and the factors that enable and restrain killing in these situations.)” (http://www.killology.com/).

On Killing focuses primarily, but not exclusively, on examining the techniques and methodologies that militaries have used to condition soldiers to kill, and the effects of those techniques (and of killing) on the minds of soldiers. Grossman starts from the perspective that killing is something that most humans are naturally predisposed to avoid, and that it is only the influence of a variety of other factors that will compel human beings to kill under most circumstances. He cites a variety of sources, some of which are very convincing (a comparison of firing rates between soldiers in the second world war and in Vietnam, respectively), and some of which are wholly unconvincing (a passage in Vegitus [I think?] which seems to refer more to the difficulties of training people to fight in a technical manner than any revulsion to killing, particularly). The whole book, in fact, seems to flip-flop between some very well reasoned, well-thought out arguments, and some not so well supported assertions that, if not out of left field, are at least, not particularly compelling.

The last portion of the book is the most sudden turn, as Grossman suddenly veers from talking about the psychology of killing into talking about the dangers of violent videogames and television shows. I have to admit—it was very hard for me to approach this section with anything resembling an open mind; I have a huge problem with the mindset that blames videogames and movies for what often amounts to shitty parenting, and I have no sympathy for those parents who expected the television to raise their children, and are then unhappy with the results. At the same time, Grossman does make some convincing comparisons between certain types of games and the sort of “operant conditioning” used by the military, and I think it’s worth considering that he may at least be right about some of the effects of exposing children to these sorts of games and movies, which any sensible parent ought to consider.

Ultimate, I find that I have the same issue with this book that I have with other, similar sorts of, “science for lay-people” books, which is that they seem to rely a lot on careful research and study, but don’t necessarily give you a lot of details about that research. The result is that you’re sometimes forced to take the author at his or her word about what a particular study proves, because they aren’t even showing you the parts of the study that serve to back up their point (never mind the parts that might refute it).

Still, it is a good, thought-provoking book, and is certainly worthwhile reading for anyone who is interested in the effects of learning to kill (and killing) on the human mind. There’s also some interesting discussion of how society treats its soldiers, which has a lot bearing on our current socio-political climate. Not a book for everyone, but definitely a worthwhile read.(less)

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Apr 18, 2008 Kelly B rated it 4 of 5 stars

People don't like to kill each other. But they might start changing their minds....

No but seriously, this is a great read. I mean, if you're interested in how people are conditioned to kill, and how they actually behave after they are conditioned to kill. Honestely, I have a hard time believing some of the stuff he asserts, but I think there's a lot of valuable information in there that you wouldn't find anywhere else.

The part I love is when he examines the history of using bayonets in warfare,...more People don't like to kill each other. But they might start changing their minds....

No but seriously, this is a great read. I mean, if you're interested in how people are conditioned to kill, and how they actually behave after they are conditioned to kill. Honestely, I have a hard time believing some of the stuff he asserts, but I think there's a lot of valuable information in there that you wouldn't find anywhere else.

The part I love is when he examines the history of using bayonets in warfare, and that really, there are hardly any examples of it actually happening, because guess what? Humans HATE the idea of piercing another human's body with a long sharp object. We are much more likely to slash and cut each other than we are to actually stab someone, to run someone through with a spear. Apparently (and I swear I'm not a violent person) the most effective way to kill someone quietly is to stab them in the kidney from behind, because it's so paralyzingly painful, a person cannot make any noise. This is what they teach those special forces guys, and yet still they are more likely to go up behind someone, put their hand over the person's mouth, and cut their throat. Even though this is noisier, less effective, and in all liklihood a good way to cut one's own hand, this is somehow more natural than stabbing someone in the back.

People are also less likely to kill people the closer in proximity they are to each other. Bombing towns from a plane 20,000 feet in the air is much easier than shooting a long range rocket from the ground, which is much easier than shooting someone who is only a hundred yards away with a machine gun, which is much easier than throwing a grenade into a building and running away, which is much easier than using an edged weapon in a hand to hand fight, which is much easier than killing someone with one's bare hands. Makes sense intuitively, but is truly gruesome to read about--which makes another important point--most of us haven't experienced this, thus it is not fair to judge those who have had to. In my opinion...(less)

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Jun 13, 2007 Adam rated it 4 of 5 stars

Grossman, a former Army Ranger (who, ironically, has never actually killed anyone) collects myriad stories from those who have killed, and comments on society's collective aversion to the action. In wwii, only 15% of men were willing to fire their weapons, in korea it rose to 50%, in vietnam, the american military was able to persuade 90% of combat troops to fire on the enemy. Grossman comments on how the military was able to accomplish this, and discusses impacts of the operant condition, and o...more

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Jan 24, 2009 Seth rated it 4 of 5 stars

"On Killing" is a fascinating book that details through heavily documented research the effects of killing during war on the individual. It's a dense read, but engrossing, and worth reading for anybody who is curious about the affect of war on the average soldier, or curious about why the Vietnam War stands out as such a stark and glaring watermark on combat.

Unfortunately, the last chapter of the book has three notable flaws. One, it blames violence on media, and not on parental control. Two, it...more

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Dec 04, 2008 Catten rated it 4 of 5 stars

In his book On Killing, Grossman uses interviews, personal accounts, published narratives, academic studies, and a few statistics to look at the psychology of killing in combat - what he calls killology. He looks mostly at military techniques developed to overcome human aversion to the innate resistance to taking a life. This is a problem police officers encounter in deadly force situations - ones in which they must draw their weapons and shoot a bad guy.

Grossman begins early in the book compari...more In his book On Killing, Grossman uses interviews, personal accounts, published narratives, academic studies, and a few statistics to look at the psychology of killing in combat - what he calls killology. He looks mostly at military techniques developed to overcome human aversion to the innate resistance to taking a life. This is a problem police officers encounter in deadly force situations - ones in which they must draw their weapons and shoot a bad guy.

Grossman begins early in the book comparing combat to sex, which works nicely as an introduction to the topic, because while most people haven't killed someone, many have experienced sex and can relate to his explanation of posturing (acting larger to intimidate an opponent) and responses to aggression. He uses analogies from the animal kingdom to explain man's aversion to killing. In intraspecies conflicts, dueling to the death is unusual. Most often, there is a great deal of posturing in the form of puffing up, growling, hissing, clawing, and raising hackles. If there is physical confrontation, it is non-lethal, and at some point, one animal will choose to submit or retreat. Humans naturally follow the same patterns.

According to Grossman, in the history of combat from Alexander the Great through World War II, only about 15 percent of soldiers in battle were actually trying to kill the enemy. The reason: Humans have a deep and strong taboo against looking a person in the face while destroying him. However, in Vietnam, that number jumped to more than 90 percent. How? According to Grossman, by conditioning fear into an automatic killing reflex: "When people become angry, or frightened, they stop thinking with their forebrain (the mind of a human being) and start thinking with their midbrain (which is indistinguishable from the mind of an animal). They are literally "scared out of their wits." When the US Army began using classical and operant conditioning, their numbers jumped. Training became more realistic, repetitive, and rewarding. Soldiers shot at man-shaped targets rather than bull's-eyes, and they got to see their results immediately because the targets fell down when hit. They practiced qualifying over and over until they were comfortable. And it certainly didn't hurt that the enemy became a collective "Charlie the gook" instead of people. Unfortunately, some parts of the equation for success were missing (support from the people back home, for instance) and our soldiers came back from Vietnam with plenty of psychic damage that they are still living with today. This is not purely a war phenomenon, however. Cops who shoot suspects frequently experience similar symptoms of nightmares, insomnia, fear, and feeling alone.

After a lengthy discussion on post-traumatic stress disorder, Grossman wraps up the book with crime statistics and an argument that the breakdown of American society is caused by persistent violence in the media and interactive video games. He says that we are conditioning our children the same way we condition our soldiers: "We are learning to kill, and we are learning to like it."

I am not convinced by his statistics, but he does make some valid points. I'm afraid, though, that his fight with the media and entertainment industry will not be successful due to societal apathy towards violence.

Maybe the war in Iraq will change this.

Read more by Grossman at www.killology.com. (less)

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May 06, 2013 Nick Marsh rated it 2 of 5 stars

By turns fascinating and overly moralising; amazing insights into how normal people can be made to commit atrocites, the average soldier's (reassuring) reluctance to kill (at least, up close and personally) are mixed with poor research and referencing, repetition and generally uninspiring writing.

Throughout the book we are repeatedly told of the massive increase in violent crime throughout America - but this isn't referenced. When I finally tracked down one reference to crime studies in the 'fur...more

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May 05, 2013 Colin rated it 3 of 5 stars

This book is enlightening-- and in some ways it is heartening to hear just how difficult it can be to get people to kill one another. Although I am not an enthusiast for the Freudian and Skinnerian theories Grossman draws upon, this book does make a plausible case for how killing works on the mind. There is a compelling set of narratives here about what killing, and training to kill does to individual soldiers. Even if you find some of the psychological models problematic, and even if you remove...more This book is enlightening-- and in some ways it is heartening to hear just how difficult it can be to get people to kill one another. Although I am not an enthusiast for the Freudian and Skinnerian theories Grossman draws upon, this book does make a plausible case for how killing works on the mind. There is a compelling set of narratives here about what killing, and training to kill does to individual soldiers. Even if you find some of the psychological models problematic, and even if you remove the frequent extrapolations from WWII firing rates (over which there has been, I understand, some controversy) Grossman's discussion of individual narratives remains compelling. That makes me wish he paid a little more attention to the nature of narrative. Some of the narratives here come from interviews Grossman himself conducted. Many are quoted from journalists like Gwynne Dyer, and historians like John Keegan. Others are quoted from published memoirs, or works of what might now be called literary non-fiction. Since the book, in the end, extrapolates a lot from how these narratives are structured I wonder if more attention might be given to how narrative tends to work in the first place. I do not want to suggest that we can gain no insight into how the mind works by studying literature. I just would like to point out that some of the data Grossman uses are explicitly literary, and literature does not 'bare the soul' in a straightforward way. War is an especially 'storied' subject, and even those who shared their stories with Grossman in a private venue can hardly have avoided the conventions that arise in telling stories about war. I would not expect this book to do what it does and also analyze the whole literary history of kill-narratives. Nor would I be very interested in reading the kind of literary criticism that might suggest that since conventions of kill-narrative exist, there is no authentically common human experience to explain those conventions. I just wonder whether a more explicit discussion of stories as stories might not have made the book more convincing. Grossman is an attentive reader of narrative, and sometimes his discussion of interviews elaborates admirably on subtle cues, but sometimes he also projects reactions onto the reader of a narrative that I simply did not have. I am left wondering why, despite his sensitivity to storytellers, Grossman could have failed to acknowledge that story-hearers might have differing reactions.(less)

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Mar 21, 2013 Suzanne Stroh rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: military-history

One of the most profound books I've ever read. Recommended by an ex-military friend of mine who is a female combat veteran, a former U2 pilot, and a graduate of both the Air Force Academy and the prep school that feeds it. Some of the deepest ethical discussions in my life have been related to the philosophical questions raised by, and in, this book.

Until I read On Killing, my favorite work of military history was The Face of Battle by John Keegan. Army Ranger Dave Grossman (not a combat veteran...more One of the most profound books I've ever read. Recommended by an ex-military friend of mine who is a female combat veteran, a former U2 pilot, and a graduate of both the Air Force Academy and the prep school that feeds it. Some of the deepest ethical discussions in my life have been related to the philosophical questions raised by, and in, this book.

Until I read On Killing, my favorite work of military history was The Face of Battle by John Keegan. Army Ranger Dave Grossman (not a combat veteran) reviews the role of killing in human history and relates it to a military statistic called the firing rate, drawn from data compiled by Richard Holmes and others. These findings will shock you. And the implications go way beyond predicting what warfare will become.

Seems to me that the best military historian struggles with more internal conflict than almost any other practitioner. There's almost no work of military history that doesn't glorify war, and yet the social costs usually (and clearly) far outweigh the gains, as Grossman argues powerfully in this book. The military historian's task is to "normalize" this abhorrent behavior, to explain armed conflict in terms of societal norms and values that soon begin to seem absurd, if not perverse, once innocent casualties are tallied, no matter what the war being studied. And yet Grossman argues that nine out of ten combat veterans are not perverse. He argues that the firing rate shows that nine out of ten soldiers in combat will do almost anything--up to a point--to avoid taking human life, even if their own life is under threat. How, then, can we account for such widespread destruction? I won't spoil the book for you.

This book, like all other modern military histories, must ultimately apologize for wars waged through a command structure which trains soldiers based on "values" that are trampled every time. The best military historians draw from their deepest humanity in telling their stories, and after great reads like this, I am always left wondering: is military history really only a folly, or is it a supreme indulgence, or is it possibly the widest window into the dark soul of our species? And I am always convinced that for civilization to advance productively, more of us should be reading more in this genre.

(less)

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Jan 26, 2013 Bernie Gourley rated it 5 of 5 stars

Grossman's work reports on a line of research started by Army historian and author of "Men Against Fire" S.L.A. Marshall. Grossman not only brings us up-to-date on this thesis, he shows us its ramifications for modern society-at-large.

A two-part thesis was advanced by Marshall and continued by Grossman and others.

First, humans, like other species, are reluctant to kill within their species. (Marshall noted that in World War II about 75% of soldiers would not fire on the enemy when they had the...more Grossman's work reports on a line of research started by Army historian and author of "Men Against Fire" S.L.A. Marshall. Grossman not only brings us up-to-date on this thesis, he shows us its ramifications for modern society-at-large.

A two-part thesis was advanced by Marshall and continued by Grossman and others.

First, humans, like other species, are reluctant to kill within their species. (Marshall noted that in World War II about 75% of soldiers would not fire on the enemy when they had the opportunity. There is evidence this was true for earlier wars as well.

Second, the percentage of soldiers firing on the enemy could be increased by training that conditions them to shooting targets that look more human. i.e. Instead of shooting bulls-eyes, they should at least shoot a shape that looks like the silhouette of a man's head and shoulders.

It turns out that the ability to condition combatants proved correct. There was a progressive increase in genuine engagement of the enemy by soldiers in subsequent wars (i.e. the Korean and Vietnam Wars.)

Grossman goes on to say that this type of conditioning is not limited to soldiers and police officers. He suggests that video games in which gamers shoot at humans and humanoid creatures will desensitize players to trigger pulling. Many scoff at this idea because they think that he is saying that such games make killers. What he is suggesting is a bit more subtle than that. He is saying that a person who is pre-dispossessed to go on a killing spree will be less reluctant if they have undergone the conditioning of this type of gaming. In essence, an high barrier to going on a killing spree will be lowered.

Grossman covers many other issues related to killing, such as the importance of distance. One intriguing fact is that an infantryman that kills a single enemy soldier in war is more likely to have problems such as Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) than a bombardier who drops bombs that may likely resulted in hundreds or thousands of deaths.

The book also talks about the role of authority, famously addressed by the Milgram experiments. Stanley Milgram found that most people would turn a knob that they believed was delivering a severe shock to a complete stranger, if they were told to do so by someone who seemed to be an authority figure.

I highly recommend this book for those interested in the subjects of:
- PTSD
- the role of violent video games in mass killings
- the psychological effects of killing (less)

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Jan 24, 2013 Matthew rated it 4 of 5 stars

This is an outstanding book - more like 4 1/2 stars. For anyone with an interest in military history (such as myself), this is actually a MUST read. Don't let the title, and the nature of the subject, dissuade you. Just the first few chapters alone are incredible insightful and - at least for myself - made much of the military histories I've read make much more sense.

This is a sober and revealing analysis of the psychology of combat and killing - mainly in terms of a soldier in combat. No punche...more This is an outstanding book - more like 4 1/2 stars. For anyone with an interest in military history (such as myself), this is actually a MUST read. Don't let the title, and the nature of the subject, dissuade you. Just the first few chapters alone are incredible insightful and - at least for myself - made much of the military histories I've read make much more sense.

This is a sober and revealing analysis of the psychology of combat and killing - mainly in terms of a soldier in combat. No punches are pulled here, and it deals with a topic that is often simply not discussed, and one that is at times intensely uncomfortable. But it is done from an intensively analytical standpoint, after extensive study of various data. And it is excellent.

And while the subject centers mainly about the soldier in combat, the psychology is at times more broadly applicable, and the discussion by the author makes it a simultaneous critique of aspects of current, modern 21st century American culture.

It completely exposes numerous myths - many of which are currently propagated by modern TV/movies/books - all of which depict the ease with which humans kill one another. Just getting an better understanding of how the media we are all *bombarded* with - is all WRONG when it comes to the subject of death, dying, and killing - is worth the price of the book several times over. (And not just wrong, but potentially harmful - absent a balance of factual understanding.)

The book ends with an indictment of sorts of modern American culture (violence in movies, video games, etc...) - specifically with the exposure of children/teenagers to such material - that is much more convincing than anything I've seen or read before. I must admit that I have never really subscribed (completely) to the theory of the type of harm such movies/videogames provide and have thought that some of the outrage against such materials is overdone. And I think that is still true. But I will admit that the author has successfully changed my mind on the subject in terms of the potential for impact on children/young minds.

Anyways, despite the (appropriately) disturbing subject, this is a phenomenal book. (less)

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Jan 11, 2013 Alexia rated it 5 of 5 stars

I had originally planned to review this book right once I finished it. Then I planned to write my review on Memorial Day. And I still don't feel like things are settled enough in my mind to properly write this review, but I need to do it sometime so here goes.
I picked this book up on a whim. I rarely, -RARELY- read anything to do with war. When I do, it's a story with a war in it. I've never read anything about war itself. This might sound strange, but being a female, I've had the incredible pri...more I had originally planned to review this book right once I finished it. Then I planned to write my review on Memorial Day. And I still don't feel like things are settled enough in my mind to properly write this review, but I need to do it sometime so here goes.
I picked this book up on a whim. I rarely, -RARELY- read anything to do with war. When I do, it's a story with a war in it. I've never read anything about war itself. This might sound strange, but being a female, I've had the incredible privilege of never having to consider the possibility of personally being involved in combat. I realize women do participate in combat in Israel and that they now have this opportunity here, but I'm not forced to. I don't plan on joining the armed forces and don't have to register for selective service. So even men who don't plan on joining the armed forces have to consider it, even remotely, when they go to register for that. Or even when they watch a war movie, it's all people who look like them fighting. It's a whole range of experiences I had never really considered or done a good job of "put yourself in their shoes"-ing.
This book corrected some of my misconceptions about combat stress. I thought that stress mainly comes from being worried about your own personal safety (I would be worried about that). Instead, it comes from worries about letting people down, being expected to kill and seeing hate. Soldiers encounter people they've never seen before who *hate* them. Hate them enough to try to kill them. That's jarring. Even though you know abstractly that this whole thing is two abstract countries having problems, you didn't do anything personally to this guy, so why can't we both just do our jobs since I don't really have a problem with you personally...? That can't happen, even though that's what emotionally makes sense. Having to cope with that disconnect is tough.
I will never understand what it's like to be expected to kill somebody, or what it's like to actually kill somebody. Try as I'd like the entire book to empathize, I have limits. This is my limit. I can't understand, but I think I'm now better able to listen and consider that experience.
The main thing I'm still churning and considering, is how to be against a certain war and remain supportive of the people who fight in it. This was a huge disconnect in Vietnam and it hurt men who had fought. So I think it's a good idea to work on balancing the two elements, but this book comes out very negatively on the possibility doing that. When soldiers are sent to fight and kill, to psychologically justify what they're doing, they have to believe in the cause. So disbelief in the cause means you're taking that psychological harmony away from innocent soldiers.
I don't want to do that and put more stress on regular guys who've been asked to do a hard job. But I can't pretend to support a military initiative that isn't based on fact on well thought through. I want to turn the same arguement around and say, since the job is so hard maybe the answer isn't harmony for harmony's sake but considering whether sending soldiers on this mission is justified in the first place. Knowing how hard it is for the people involved should make us quadruple check whether it's necessary.
Didn't agree with all the positions put forth in the book, but this book opened my eyes to a set of experiences I had never considered. That's what traditional art is supposed to do. This book had some "conservative" rhetoric that I didn't agree with, but since it had a viewpoint broadening effect I still really enjoyed it.(less)

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Oct 28, 2012 Nathan Shepherd rated it 4 of 5 stars

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here. A fascinating psychological read. This book reveals lots of interesting information about mankind's ability / inability to kill and how the military and law enforcement have improved it over time to legitimately help them do their jobs more safely and effectively. By its own account, it is one of the first books to actually explore this subject.

The author expands the applications from the military to include society as a whole. The argument is the media adopts techniques normally used by law en...more

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Sep 24, 2011 Dino rated it 3 of 5 stars

The book should not be taken as absolute, peer reviewed fact. While it starts out in an academic fashion and explains the basis for its theories, it later derails into chapter-long rants and moans about how American society is to blame for its treatment of returning veterans of the Vietnam war. Exaggerating and making very emotional, biased arguments.

And if that was not enough Grossman, decides to squander his credentials by attempting to perpetuate the disproved myth that violent video-games an...more

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Apr 14, 2011 Tasha rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: non-fic

A well-written, well-researched book that I think everyone, military and non-military alike, should read. Grossman provides amazing insight into the minds of our soldiers both past and present. I feel like we owe it to our armed forces to understand better what they do for us, especially the Vietnam vets. After reading this book, you will never look at a soldier the same way again. I want to let every Vietnam vet know how sorry I am for the reception they received upon coming back to the states....more

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Apr 13, 2011 Amber rated it 5 of 5 stars

My best friend is currently at Basic Training for the Army, and she loaned this book to me before she left. I'm really, really glad that she did. This book was a very important one for me to read, and now was the right time for me to read it. Far from being a long essay of the horrors of war, this book deals intelligently and sensitively with the act of taking a human life and what it takes to overcome the inherent instinct to NOT kill another human being so that a soldier can do his job and sur...more

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Dec 23, 2010 Peregrine 12 rated it 4 of 5 stars

Four stars - I didn't 'like' this book, but I think it's an important read. The first part, about human psychology and warfare, was fascinating. I couldn't finish the latter part of the book about human atrocities, however. Just didn't have the stomach for it.

My only complaint: I wish the author would have included citations for his many statements about human nature. Specifically, on page 6-7 he describes the 'Soldier's Options' to fight, flight, posture, or submit. I had never heard of these...more

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Sep 08, 2010 Xio rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: psycho-logy-analysisneuroscience, ethnography-cultural-investigations, historysociologyetc

Lt.Col. Grossman is developing a field of study he has termed 'killology'. As you can probably guess, this is the study of killing. His book here is concerned with the psychological and subsequent social effects of learning to kill. It is well researched and written in a careful and sensitive tone, he maintains a respect for his subjects--mostly military personnel.

He begins with a detailed analysis of the inhibition against killing humans and its effects on battlefields. This leads to a discuss...more

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Jul 18, 2012 Spencer rated it 3 of 5 stars

Main takeaway is that the majority of soldiers (80%) have to learn how to kill. If the author has a first rate mind this book does nothing to indicate that fact. He seems to essentially have an educated but average mind that lacks deftness and nuance in presenting theories, many of which require constant adjustment to account for too many counter-examples.

Some of his basic assertions are credibly discredited by Steven Pinker. One of the most irritating sections was when he asserted that the maj...more

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Apr 16, 2009 Cassidy rated it 4 of 5 stars

This is a book worth reading. It gets repetitive sometimes when the author is trying to emphasize or prove a point, but it really is fascinating. It's a study of what happens to the body physically and psychologically when it is forced to kill another human. Plus, it studies what happens to soldiers when they are forced to kill in combat, and under what circumstances that the innate resistance we have to kill others can be overcome.
It attacks violence in the media, too, which I want to immediate...more

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Oct 10, 2012 djcb rated it 3 of 5 stars

After reading quite a few books relating to military matters (including some which glorify the whole business a bit -- say, No easy day or American sniper), it seemed good to look a bit deeper into the minds of soldiers -- "On Killing" is all about what goes through the heads of men whose job it is to kill.

An interesting fact seems to be that at most 20% or so of American WW2 soldiers fired at the enemy; and this number seems to be consistent with other armies / history (there is no hard evidenc...more

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Sep 13, 2012 Ismael Galvan rated it 5 of 5 stars

I'm not a combat vet or connected to violence in anyway, so I feel my opinion on this book is virtually useless when put against ones that are by people who've seen it first hand. But as an "ordinary" person I found this book highly fascinating. For most people like myself, our biggest exposure to killing is the internet and TV. Thus we have a distorted idea of what it actually is.

What I found so interesting about this book was how it analyzed the act of killing on human psyche. Grossman took va...more

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Jun 09, 2009 Marjanne rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: Soldiers, politicians, anyone who supports a soldier

Recommended to Marjanne by: My Aaron

This book was very interesting. I was not as up to date as I was expecting (it was written in the mid-1990's), but it is still relevant. It was interesting to read how people/soldiers are desensitized, and how that is at play in our media (and even worse now than it was when the book was written). Being the wife of a veteran I felt like it gave me some insight into some of the things my husband has experienced, and I hope it helps me to understand and support him better. This book should be read...more

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Sep 03, 2011 Christopher Rex rated it 3 of 5 stars

Fascinating subject and analysis. A friend of mine was in the USMC and told me a lot about the ways in which the military de-sensitizes soldiers to the act of killing. One would likely never realize how "difficult" it is to actually get people to kill, let alone WANT to kill. It seems the USMC and military in general have found the combination to the lock on this Pandora's Box. The problem becomes, like all Pandora's Boxes, you don't simply get to close the lid once it is open.

The author does a...more

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Sep 08, 2009 Greg rated it 3 of 5 stars

I read this book on recommendation from a Navy SEAL friend. The book is actually required reading as part of the Navy SEAL training curriculum.

Don't miss the ten-page "Introduction to the Paperback Edition". In those fascinating ten pages, the author basically gives the reader a concise summary of everything you need to know on the topic. The rest of book actually just restates in greater detail (sometimes waaay too much detail) the information presented so well in this introduction. In his effo...more

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Jun 07, 2010 Heather Denkmire rated it 4 of 5 stars

Recommended to Heather by: The Age of Empathy

This was a powerful, moving, and informative book. It is a book of "killology," the author says at one point. I'm always drawn to topics that are the least comfortable to consider, and people killing is certainly uncomfortable.

The stories in the book, the experiences of the Vietnam vets (as opposed to Korean, WWII, etc.) had me literally crying. I would encourage any of my fellow progressives, liberals, left-wing radicals to read this book. I wouldn't say it's pro-war, though it is most certainl...more

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Dec 01, 2012 Sylvia rated it 5 of 5 stars

Shelves: non-fiction, war-book

I opened this book, read the introduction up to the part about violent video games, and put it down for six months, thinking "this is going to be a long rant about sheltering the children from violence." My mistake!

Instead, this is an informed and educated book about violence, killing, and society. The thesis can be summarized fairly succinctly: most humans have a natural aversion to the type of deadly violence expected in combat, thus to form effective fighting forces society has striven to rep...more

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Mar 15, 2012 Royce rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

I do not have the vocab or writing skills to do this book justice. There is numerous "impacts" of the events that soldiers endure that I never would have imagined.

The author is a psychologist who is also an Army Lt. Col. and he takes us into why we are hesitant to kill our fellow man face to face, showing that studies of World War 2 and earlier wars had soldier fire rates of 15-20%. He discovers how the armed forces began conditioning that increased the troop fire rates to 90-95% by the Vietnam...more

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Jul 29, 2011 Jason Mccool added it · review of another edition

Don't let the title scare you off - this is a great book for anyone that has served in the military or law enforcement, or for friends and family of those who have. This is what I would call practical psychology, not the normal psycho-babble, but a real honest look at the effects of justifiable killing on "good guys", the enabling factors that lead to horrendous atrocities like the Holocaust, and the effects of our bloodthirsty entertainment industry on our youth and how we are are inadvertently...more

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About Dave Grossman

Lt. Col Dave Grossman is the author of On Killing and On Combat as well as several science fiction books.

In 1998 Lt. Colonel Grossman retired from the military as Professor of Military Science at Arkansas State University. His career includes service in the United States Army as a sergeant in the U.S. 82nd Airborne Division, a platoon leader in the 9th Infantry Division (United States), a general...more Lt. Col Dave Grossman is the author of On Killing and On Combat as well as several science fiction books.

In 1998 Lt. Colonel Grossman retired from the military as Professor of Military Science at Arkansas State University. His career includes service in the United States Army as a sergeant in the U.S. 82nd Airborne Division, a platoon leader in the 9th Infantry Division (United States), a general staff officer, a company commander in the 7th Infantry Division (United States) as well as the U.S. Army Rangers and a teacher of psychology at West Point.

Grossman's first book, ''On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society'' is an analysis of the physiological processes involved with killing another human being. In it, he reveals evidence that most people have a phobic-level response to violence, and that soldiers need to be specifically trained to kill. In addition, he details the physical effects that violent stresses produce on humans, ranging from tunnel vision, changes in sonic perception, and post-traumatic stress disorder.

Grossman argues that the techniques used by armies to train soldiers to kill are mirrored in certain types of video games. The conclusion he draws is that playing violent video games, particularly Light gun shooters of the First-person shooter-variety (where the player holds a weapon-like game controller), train children in the use of weapons and, more importantly, harden them emotionally to the task of murder by simulating the killing of hundreds or thousands of opponents in a single typical video game.

His second book, ''On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace'', is an extension of the first, intended to provide coping strategies for dealing with the physiological and psychological effects of violence for people forced to kill in their line of work (soldiers and police officers).

Grossman uses blunt language that draws the ire of gamers - during the heights of video game controversy, he was interviewed on the content of his books, and repeatedly used the term "murder simulator" to describe first-person shooter games.

Since his retirement from the Army, Grossman has founded the Killology Research Group and continues to educate law enforcement officers and soldiers in the techniques he has studied for improving outcomes in lethal encounters. He also speaks at civilian events on ways to reduce violence in society and deal with the aftermath of violent events such as school shootings.(less)

More about Dave Grossman...

Books by Dave Grossman

On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace

The Guns of Two-Space (Two-Space War, #2)

Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill: A Call to Action Against TV, Movie & Video Game Violence

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