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10th out of 13 books
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23 voters
An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
Over the past thirty years, an enormous amount of research has been conducted into Mormon origins—Joseph Smith’s early life, the Book of Mormon, the prophet’s visions, and the restoration of priesthood authority. Longtime LDS educator Grant H. Palmer suggests that most Latter-day Saints remain unaware of the significance of these discoveries, and he gives a brief survey fo...more
Paperback, 296 pages
Published
November 15th 2002
by Signature Books
(first published October 2002)
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I was surprised so many on goodreads have read this book. It is fascinating, but it helps if one is pretty well grounded in mormon history before jumping into this. Of course, the Mormon church guaranteed that it would have a wider audience than it might otherwise have had when they threatened to excommunicate the author after they'd been selling the book in church bookstores for some time. When will they ever learn?
An interesting literary criticism of the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. There were many interesting points, some of which had more merit than others. Ultimately, it was interesting if not entirely convincing (kind of like a lot of the papers I wrote in college).
More convincing: Book of Abraham connection to obscure 19th century astronomy book, connections between the BOM and 19th century preaching styles, Biblical connections to the BOM (and the lack of new doctrine), the gullible natur...more
More convincing: Book of Abraham connection to obscure 19th century astronomy book, connections between the BOM and 19th century preaching styles, Biblical connections to the BOM (and the lack of new doctrine), the gullible natur...more
2 likes · like · see review
Very good book, well written. Can be a little dry at times but only because it is so well referenced and footnoted. The topic is very well presented, tastefully and in a way that it makes sense. Next to the Holy Scriptures, there is no other book that has strengthened my testimony as much of the Holy Spirit! I challenge anyone that believes to read this book. It will deeply bless you. The book is written in such a ways that it assumes that you already are familiar with LDS Docterine. As Palmer n...more
When I first started it I didn't believe a lot of what he said, fact wise, so I did my research (and appreciated how clearly and accurately he referenced) and found he is actually very clear and accurate on his history. I liked his approach and appreciated his perspective and opinions, although I did not agree with him on every single thing. He was very fair and honest, is easy to read, and in the end, I really liked the book. I highly recommend it to anyone seeking to get a clearer picture on L...more
This was an interesting book for several reasons. Palmer is a former CES instructor and institute director with an MA in History from BYU. He connects a lot of lesser-known historical information (at least by most active LDS) together into a somewhat controversial view of the founding stories of the LDS church.
I didn't really relate to the first part of the book as much, because he uses issues with Joseph Smith's attempt to translate things like the Book of Abraham, the Kinderhook plates, etc.,...more
I didn't really relate to the first part of the book as much, because he uses issues with Joseph Smith's attempt to translate things like the Book of Abraham, the Kinderhook plates, etc.,...more
Read this book if you are LDS!
Grant Palmer is a Mormon "Saint". His courage and candor evidenced in this book is awe inspiring. I thank God for his work and honor his memory. His candor and courage in writing this book has been instrumental in giving me the courage of my own convictions. Please read this book if you've never considered any other point of view but your own regarding the truthfullness of the Book of Mormon. Grant Palmer makes his own conclusions (he believes that the LDS church is...more
Grant Palmer is a Mormon "Saint". His courage and candor evidenced in this book is awe inspiring. I thank God for his work and honor his memory. His candor and courage in writing this book has been instrumental in giving me the courage of my own convictions. Please read this book if you've never considered any other point of view but your own regarding the truthfullness of the Book of Mormon. Grant Palmer makes his own conclusions (he believes that the LDS church is...more
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A terrific read. Here is a a man who feels he is true to his faith, but maligned my mormon church leadership for sharing an "alternative" approach to mormon origins, rather than the official story the mormon church promulgates through its missionary program and correlated sunday school program across the world.
Palmer's alternative history is simply a consideration of all the sources describing the foundational events of the mormon church: Joseph's first vision, the golden plates/Book of Mormon,...more
Palmer's alternative history is simply a consideration of all the sources describing the foundational events of the mormon church: Joseph's first vision, the golden plates/Book of Mormon,...more
Orthodox Latter-day Saints would surely take umbrage with the conclusions Palmer draws from these "uncorrelated" yet well-documented versions of foundational events in early church history. The facts themselves can be interpreted in many ways--depending on the perspective of the reader; that Palmer only supplies his own interpretation of the story can be hardly be considered a crime, and his conclusions are not unreasonable; however, I always appreciate a historian who can honor the possibility...more
I think Palmer wrote an excellent, scholarly work. I don't get the feeling he is biased or overly emotional. I found his analysis to be careful and his judgements mostly good.
Some of what I read here, I encountered in Church History classes at BYU. Some of it, I've read since then and some of it was entirely new. I especially appreciated the author's conclusions chapter as a solution to the problems he brings up in the previous chapters. I think his conclusions are insightful and correct, if yo...more
Some of what I read here, I encountered in Church History classes at BYU. Some of it, I've read since then and some of it was entirely new. I especially appreciated the author's conclusions chapter as a solution to the problems he brings up in the previous chapters. I think his conclusions are insightful and correct, if yo...more
My preface is this: read like a scientist; be analytical and scrutinize the information presented to see if the author’s conclusions are substantially validated.
I read this book on the recommendation of a friend and I have not previously encountered many of these views, even while I served an LDS mission. The author’s case is that the Book of Mormon was not “translated” by Joseph Smith, but that it was a product of his vast knowledge of the Bible and his ingenious mind (though it was completed...more
I read this book on the recommendation of a friend and I have not previously encountered many of these views, even while I served an LDS mission. The author’s case is that the Book of Mormon was not “translated” by Joseph Smith, but that it was a product of his vast knowledge of the Bible and his ingenious mind (though it was completed...more
In the spectrum of active LDS historians/authors, Grant Palmer is one of the more rationalist in his views on church history (and let me be clear: he's rationalistic, but not always rational). I gave him four stars, but would have preferred 3.5 overall. The chapters, in my opinion, are not equal to each other in their level of research and critical support. Chapter 6, "Witnesses to the Golden Plates," is his strongest and provides a good introduction to the way early church members articulated t...more
If you are interested in Mormon History, this should be your starting point. Written in a respectful manner by an active Mormon and 35 year CES director, this book takes an honest look at the origins of the Mormon faith, not shying away from some of the more uncomfortable aspects.
My only critique of the book is that where the rest of the book is very well documented and factual, the 'Golden Pot' chapter is speculative and I wish he hadn't included it.
My only critique of the book is that where the rest of the book is very well documented and factual, the 'Golden Pot' chapter is speculative and I wish he hadn't included it.
The author states in the preface that he goal with this book is to increase faith, but its hard to see exactly where the increase comes into play in regards to the Mormon faith. This book does a pretty good job presenting many of the arguments against the translations of Joseph Smith and leaves the reader questioning if anything that Smith did was actually true. The author presents countless examples of Smith using large portions of the BoM from the bible, King James translation errors and all....more
OK, I know that I am getting some raised eyebrows on this one... I had heard about it and thought that it sounded interesting. Besides, the truth is the truth and I don't believe in living my life in fear. Either the Church is what it claims and Joseph Smith was a prophet...or not. With that said, I have to say that I liked the book (I hear the boos and hisses...). Seriously, I have always valued gaining different perspectives on important subjects, and the Gospel is no exception. The premise of...more
This is the best book I could possibly recommend on the origins of Mormonism. It answers such questions as: why is there so much protestant evangelicalism in the BofM? Where do the anachronisms (steel, silk, cement, "adieu," horses, etc.) in the BofM come from? Why keep the "golden plates" hidden from everyone? What is "Reformed Egyptian," and why doesn't it exist anywhere else in history? Why does the DNA of Native Americans betray purported Hebrew origins? Is the BofM really an ancient text, o...more
I confess that I was a bit skeptical in reading this book, as the forward states that the authors' "agenda" in writing the book was "to incorporate recent critical historical and scholarly studies of LDS history in an orthodox defense of the faith. That his aim is to "increase faith, not diminish it." The author presents himself as possessing over 30 years with the Church Educational System, including but not limited too: seminary/institute teacher, director, etc.
I found that this book respectfu...more
I found that this book respectfu...more
I felt Insiders View did a good job explaining the differences in documented Mormon history and the version that is taught and accepted today. It was well researched, although occasionally a little dry.
I know this is not the main focus of the book, but I was hoping for some explanation of how someone can know the true history of the Mormon church and still be a believing practicing Mormon; it was written by a practicing Mormon after all, but his explanation just fell short for me. Maybe he felt...more
I know this is not the main focus of the book, but I was hoping for some explanation of how someone can know the true history of the Mormon church and still be a believing practicing Mormon; it was written by a practicing Mormon after all, but his explanation just fell short for me. Maybe he felt...more
Palmer lays out the various 19th century sources that helped Joseph Smith write the Book of Mormon. He lays out the sources for the 11 witnesses and what they actually said about their experiences with the Gold Plates.
Joseph Smith's theology and hold on truth and exclusivity expanded as time went on, especially when authority was in danger during various times. Joseph Smith changed his visions accordingly, to give himself and his church more authority and power.
The writing is clear, use of sourc...more
Joseph Smith's theology and hold on truth and exclusivity expanded as time went on, especially when authority was in danger during various times. Joseph Smith changed his visions accordingly, to give himself and his church more authority and power.
The writing is clear, use of sourc...more
Not for the faint of heart. If you are a Mormon, this is interesting reading though. If you read Rough Stone Rolling and want to get into some more depth about the founding of the Church and some of the basic events this will give you an historical overview, but it is not the standard stories you hear in Sunday School. Makes you realize that the church came about in a more organic way than you thought and it gave me a lot to think about. One thing that I found particularly illuminating was to le...more
Certianly not as factual as it tries to be, but raises some good issues that need to be talked about more often and more openly.
He gives some good information that is usually only available in anti Mormon books. What I found interesting is that he is a current active Mormon yet he writes the book as if he is trying to disprove all supernatural events connected with Mormonism. If I felt as he does I certainly wouldn't waste time attending church and paying a 10% tithe to a church built on a fabrication.
It is amazing that this guy is still in the church whereas others who do accept the Book of Mormon have been excommunicat...more
It is amazing that this guy is still in the church whereas others who do accept the Book of Mormon have been excommunicat...more
An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, by Grant H. Palmer, is a solid overview of the documented facts surrounding Joseph Smith Jr., the Book of Mormon, and the beginnings of the Mormon religion. With Palmer being a practicing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a three-time director of the LDS Institutes of Religion, a former LDS seminary teacher, and a member of the Mormon History Association, I was fully expecting his book to be an apologetic view of Mormon origins, which...more
This book can be difficult for active, stalwart Mormons to read. It does not fall within the anti-Mormon literature as it was written by an active Mormon while he worked for the LDS church. It has helped me and others rethink and reframe life according to a path that is more open-minded and less dogmatic. No religion is above another, no person is more than another, people want to do great things and when the plan is not working as well as hoped, adjustments are made. Joseph and others did great...more
A well written and organized book. The author used extensive footnotes with sources primarily from church leadership, primary documents (diaries, letters, contemporary newspaper/magazine articles, affidavits etc), Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith's personally written histories, Journal of Discourses etc. However, some chapters were more convincingly documented than others. I found his Golden Pot chapter particularily unbelivable.
Palmer's book is rare because it is held up by Mormon and Non-Mormon ali...more
Palmer's book is rare because it is held up by Mormon and Non-Mormon ali...more
From the Preface: "I, along with colleagues, and drawing from years of research, find the evidence employed to support many traditional [official Mormon:] claims about the [Mormon:] church to be either nonexistent or problematic."
Um. Yes.
The thing about this book is that it's written from the standpoint of a believing member--albeit a skeptical one, but a member in good standing nonetheless (at least, as far as I know). I think this adds to his credibility. It's honest and sensitive. Most of th...more
Um. Yes.
The thing about this book is that it's written from the standpoint of a believing member--albeit a skeptical one, but a member in good standing nonetheless (at least, as far as I know). I think this adds to his credibility. It's honest and sensitive. Most of th...more
I really enjoyed this book. It talks about many of the issues that I've heard throughout my life regarding Mormonsim and approaches them with a historical, researched approach. I felt that Palmer treated each issue with fairness and respect.
--ADDED ON 27 April 2012--
I wanted to come back and offer some additional insights on this book. Now that I've read hundreds of other pages regarding Mormonism, Christianity, and the like I realize that Grant Palmer did an excellent job of taking a handful of...more
--ADDED ON 27 April 2012--
I wanted to come back and offer some additional insights on this book. Now that I've read hundreds of other pages regarding Mormonism, Christianity, and the like I realize that Grant Palmer did an excellent job of taking a handful of...more
I read this book right after finishing Richard Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling." This book presents much of the same information, but instead of focusing so much on Joseph's overall life it focuses on the main claims that Joseph made throughout his life, namely; the first vision, translation of the Book of Mormon, corroboration of the three and eight witnesses, and the restoration of the priesthood through angelic messengers. With a wealth of research Grant Palmer clearly illuminates the fallacy...more
Grant Palmer is not an anti-lds author, he is still an active member of the church that is not afraid to address the issues between the facts and the story. For those that read this book, they will have to come to new conclusions about their beliefs so I only recommend this to those that are ready to take that path. What's the saying? "Truth hurts..." Yes it can. But I'd rather the truth, than the illusion.
This is a very insightful look into early church history. I have caught bits and pieces of this in early church history classes as well as other research, but to have the information so well researched and organized is invaluable. I just wish we could get more of this at church, so we could move on to focus more on Christ and less on idealized views of the foundation of the church.
I think this book is a great starting place for someone interested in a historical view of the origins of the early Mormon church. It visits some of the disagreements historians have with the church and provides possible answers to why they differ.
The book is well referenced, some of the pages are half text and half footnotes.
Some people have complained that parts of the book are dry or boring, but I didn't find that to be the case. It is a very short book. The author has packed a lot of infor...more
The book is well referenced, some of the pages are half text and half footnotes.
Some people have complained that parts of the book are dry or boring, but I didn't find that to be the case. It is a very short book. The author has packed a lot of infor...more
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Nov 11, 2008 06:26pm
I'm anwring your comment, quoted below, via message so as not to have a discussion about religion on the public goodreads space.
You wrote...more
Nov 12, 2008 11:10am