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Patience With God: Faith for People Who Don't Like Religion (or Atheism)
Frank Schaeffer has a problem with Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, and the rest of the New Atheists
Hardcover, 256 pages
Published
October 27th 2009
by Da Capo Press
(first published 2009)
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Frank Schaeffer seems like a kind, sensitive person, someone I'd like to be in a close friendship with. He tells us that love is the apex of our existence and that we learn best from people who model peaceful, fair behavior rather than from people who try to sell us ideology. He correctly identifies Hitchens' atheistic "God Is Not Great" and LaHaye and Jenkins' theistic "Left Behind" as obnoxious works. So it pains me to admit I was disappointed with most of this book.
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Alright, I liked the title -sort of appealed to me, so I read the preface and it had some interesting moments such as:
This is a book for those of us who have faith in God in the same way we might have the flu, less a choice than a state of being in spite of doubt, in spite of feeling wounded by past religious contagion, in spite of our declared agnosticism or even atheism, in spite of the sorts of idiots like me who are attracted to or, more accurately, bred to, religion and r...more
This is a book for those of us who have faith in God in the same way we might have the flu, less a choice than a state of being in spite of doubt, in spite of feeling wounded by past religious contagion, in spite of our declared agnosticism or even atheism, in spite of the sorts of idiots like me who are attracted to or, more accurately, bred to, religion and r...more
Kudos to Schaeffer for the ground he has covered since the time of his evangelical/fundamentalist childhood. He has traveled and in his traveling he has imagined! Thank god? Perhaps. The jury is still out. Schaeffer does a wonderful job of confronting the fundamental crazies, both atheistic and religious, for their insistence that they "know." He embraces the mystery of life and encourages the scientific, searching mind. However, his imagination fails when he is unable to conce...more
Schaeffer wonderfully exposes the lie in both evangelical fundamentalists and atheistic fundamentalists, and any who believe that they hold THE truth and any who doesn't believe exactly as they do live in error. "Right" thinking and believing, of any type, only leads to dreadful logical conclusions because the universe is truly beyond complete explanation. We do not, and cannot, "know" the full extent of the "whys" of the universe. Richard Dawkins and Rick Warren...more
In this half-memoir/half-critique, Schaeffer argues that religious fundamentalists share some basic attitudes with some current atheist writers, the "new atheists". Throughout the text, he presents some of his personal background, which includes having grown up in a famous "evangelical/fundamentalist" family. He knows many of the recent and current Evangelical Christian leaders, and is able to give some personal anecdotes, as well as responses to what they've written or state...more
Taking up where _Crazy for God_ left off, Schaeffer rants against both fundamentalists and the most dogmatic of the new Atheists, before making an argument for a life full of faith of hopeful uncertainty. A lot of this book is actually about grandfather Schaeffer caring for his baby granddaughter and the love he has for her, and how this fills him with a sense of wonder and awe which is kind of cute, but you can still see the sort of cranky wit underneath. I liked it, although I thought he was p...more
I enjoyed this book for its comparisons between fundamentalists of religion, and fundamentalists of science -- a similarity I noted long ago. In fact, I found in my own experience that many who left fundamentalist Christianity seemed to simply wander over to fundamentalist science, and remain for all intents and purposes just as jerky as they were before.
However, the book wanders and doesn't seem to strike any hard point, throughout.
I would recommend this book for someone w...more
However, the book wanders and doesn't seem to strike any hard point, throughout.
I would recommend this book for someone w...more
Frank Schaeffer gives a continued rant against atheist and fundamentalist/evangelicals because of the absolute certainty shown on each side with his memoir mixed in.
A couple points he makes: evangelicals try to make it God in the bible and not a God of the Bible. A quote from the book: "Do not define the Deity: for it is only things which are made or are composite that there can be definitions". Speak only of what may not be said of God. The second atheist place faith in Go...more
A couple points he makes: evangelicals try to make it God in the bible and not a God of the Bible. A quote from the book: "Do not define the Deity: for it is only things which are made or are composite that there can be definitions". Speak only of what may not be said of God. The second atheist place faith in Go...more
A powerful book that is equally hard on atheists and Christian fundamentalists. Schaeffer (b. 1952), son of Francis Schaeffer who was a very influential leader of the Religious Right, is now a member of the Orthodox Church and very negative toward evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity. But he is just as scathing in his criticism of the New Atheists.
All in all, Schaeffer comes across as a man of honest, integrity, and penetrating insight. That stance coupled with his fine writing sk...more
All in all, Schaeffer comes across as a man of honest, integrity, and penetrating insight. That stance coupled with his fine writing sk...more
At times really beautiful; at other times a mish mash of stories and ideas. His central point is wonderful (When it comes to belief and disbelief in God, certainty is harmful and divisive; embracing paradox, mystery and love is our best choice.) but was made over and over in a variety of (sometimes tangential and self-indulgent)ways. Here are some of my favorite thoughts from this sometimes essay, sometimes memoir:
"Take the sum total of human experience, discount it by a wide ma...more
"Take the sum total of human experience, discount it by a wide ma...more
So far, his frequent references to "right-wing morons" and "fundamentalist knuckle-draggers" are undermining his thesis about compassion and gratitude*. However, I heartily endorse his argument that Hitchens and Dawkins are the pedlars of an atheistic religion, with its own trite doctrines, rah-rah meetings, and dehumanizing of the Other. I also agree that the "Left Behind" school of belief, that Spaceship Jesus will come and rescue all the good people who will then...more
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Trite. And the title is misleading. Schaeffer is a good writer, I'll give him that. Although his analogies are a stretch and he jumps around a bit. Just when I think he is on to something, he takes a turn to a tangent topic. The message of the book is about extremists, atheist and fundamentalist. Both are bad. This book is not good for people who are just agnostic and searching for some spiritual organization without all the ceremony. The second part was about finding religion everywhere. Got th...more
He does a great job of pointing up the shortcomings of a strictly atheist or strictly religious perspective to living well. It can get repetitive at times but his use of historical references, his own experiences as a lapsed fundamentalist and son of the movement, as well as examples from contributors/readers, keep things varied enough. I'd say this book should be recommended reading for any zealot.
I enjoy reading books on religion/beliefs/faith, but this didn't hit the mark. This book started out with good potential; however, went into a spiral of only looking at the negative of other extreme views and focusing in on certain beliefs. Instead of focusing on faith views the author spent the begining of the book saying why other views are wrong. Not really my style. I didn't finish the book.
In a word ... interesting. He makes his point that militant atheists are the same as fundamentalists well, but the book is as much memoir as non-fiction. I usually don't care for author-narrated books, but here I think it was better Schaeffer read it himself.
As the subtitle suggests, Schaeffer desires a faith for those like himself who are unsatisfied with typical fundamentalism, be it the religious funamentalists that most are well aware of, or those on the other side of the fence – the so-called “new atheists” (see Dawkins, Hitchens, et al.) Part-critique, part-biography, he rejects the dogmatic certainty promoted by many of these people, and instead believes that there is plenty of room for both faith and doubt in our spiritual journeys. While m...more
Frank makes the case against secular and religious Fundamentalism, while showing that a faith based in wonder and even, at times, uncertainty can be a beautiful thing. Again, this is the book I needed to read at this point in my spiritual journey.
I didn't really care for this book. I think the cover sub title was misleading - "Faith for those who do not like religion (or atheism)" I was expecting a more morality focused book, and while there is a focus on doing the right thing, he also focuses a lot on his belief in god. Makes you think, but nothing really dynamic here.
Also the punctuation and writing seemed rough in places. It just didn't flow.
Also the punctuation and writing seemed rough in places. It just didn't flow.
I couldn't bear it. Terrible as far as I got, three chapters in. See my full critique and struggle: http://www.examiner.com/x-4275-Secularis...
This book just wasn't nearly as compelling to me as _Crazy for God_, but it did have some good bits.
A very informative and diplomatic look at the extremes that we currently have in the realm of religion!
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