Lessons in Disaster: McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam by Gordon M. Goldstein

Nov 19, 2009

Kathleen rated it

Shelves: non-fiction, political, history, read-in-2009

Who in their right mind names their child McGeorge? Turns out that the incredibly wealthy Boston elite do, you know, like the Lowells who talk only to Cabots, or the Cabots who talk only to God. The point is, he was bred to arrogance and to certitude. The lessons that Goldstein learns from Bundy's mistakes are simple and elegant, yet far too easily ignored. The way a high level public servant can help push a nation into an unmitigated disaster of a war?
1.) Always pass the buck higher u...more

like 1 like

· see review

Jan 04, 2012

Max rated it

This is an excellent treatment of the Kennedy Administration's involvement in Vietnam. Drawing on numerous interviews with McGeorge Bundy, National Security Advisor to Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, and numerous documents from the Kennedy and Johnson administrations, Goldstein's thorough research provides strong support to his arguments. Goldstein tells the reader that Kennedy did not favor intervention in Southeast Asia, evidenced by the fact that he chose not to intervene after Laos fe...more This is an excellent treatment of the Kennedy Administration's involvement in Vietnam. Drawing on numerous interviews with McGeorge Bundy, National Security Advisor to Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, and numerous documents from the Kennedy and Johnson administrations, Goldstein's thorough research provides strong support to his arguments. Goldstein tells the reader that Kennedy did not favor intervention in Southeast Asia, evidenced by the fact that he chose not to intervene after Laos fell to Communism. Furthermore, while Kennedy did increase the number of military advisors in Vietnam, Goldstein argues that Kennedy did not intend to escalate the war the way McGeorge Bundy wanted and Lyndon Johnson eventually did.
Each chapter analyzes historical events and key decisions and extrapolates a particular lesson. One of the most poignant is that politics is the enemy of strategy. In fact, Goldstein argues that one of Johnson's principal considerations for escalating the conflict were to avoid looking weak on Communism. Another key lesson is that conviction without rigor is a strategy for disaster. Goldstein illuminates the debates held by Cabinet members and other key players with President Johnson over whether to escalate the war. It was shocking to learn that arguments in favor of intervening never moved past ideological reasons because statistical data, intelligence gathering, and analysis suggested that the United States could not successfully execute a war against native guerrillas. This could is why clear objectives were never determined and were postponed by McGeorge Bundy (National Security Advisor). There are of course other important lessons to be learned by reading this book.
Lessons in Disaster is an important book in understanding the blunders that led not just to America escalating the war in Vietnam, but doing so in an incredibly irresponsible fashion. It also offers key lessons to the deciders of tomorrow: should America choose to enter a war, it should have clear objectives to accomplish and know why it is doing so. War, while sometimes necessary, is not to be entered into lightly. Whether or not our intervention in Vietnam was necessary has been a highly contested issue by historians over the years, and Goldstein definitely argues the negative. It is a highly readable book and necessary reading for anyone interested in the history of the Vietnam War.(less)

like

· see review

Jul 28, 2011

Tony marked it as to-read · review of another edition

According to WSJ, "Lessons in Disaster" traces the hawkish war stance and eventual disavowal of it by Vietnam-era national-security adviser McGeorge Bundy.

In 2009, in the context of the Vietghanistan quagmire, the book: "entered West Wing circulation after Deputy National Security Adviser Tom Donilon, one of the top foreign-policy voices in the White House, gave it to White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel after reading it himself. Mr. Emanuel read the book in a weekend, then s...more

like

· see review

Jan 24, 2011

Javvie rated it

· review of another edition

Interesting book about Bundy and the decisions made on whether or not to send troops into Vietnam. A bit of an odd book considering the author's relationship with Bundy (they were collaborating, Bundy died, then the book had to be about Bundy instead), but still interesting. The book is meant to teach lessons, (hence the title) not just to be a historical record of what happened, and I think it succeeds in those terms. Aside from the titles of each chapter, there are no prescribed lessons, but w...moreInteresting book about Bundy and the decisions made on whether or not to send troops into Vietnam. A bit of an odd book considering the author's relationship with Bundy (they were collaborating, Bundy died, then the book had to be about Bundy instead), but still interesting. The book is meant to teach lessons, (hence the title) not just to be a historical record of what happened, and I think it succeeds in those terms. Aside from the titles of each chapter, there are no prescribed lessons, but what you think about when you read it definitely brings those up. The author is both analysing what Bundy thought he should have done (from Bundy's perspective) and what the author identifies as his actual shortcomings as well as when Bundy failed to perceive those shortcomings in action.

Bundy himself, but mostly the author, identify several shortcomings in Bundy's behavior during his stint as essentially the National Security Advisor to both Kennedy and Johnson. First, Bundy was not a very good manager and not a good gatekeeper (even though he'd proven to be pretty good in his academic jobs). Second, he also didn't work on weekends (author loves highlighting this) and didn't quite seem to have what he needed to put into a position of that importance. Third, Bundy was fixated on the US's credibility issues in the world and seemed most worried about whether or not there would be a "paper tiger" - not worried about whether we'd win (and didn't think so) or the lives we'd lose... crazy.

The most interesting part of the book is the end - in which the conclusion seems to be that Kennedy would not have gone to war in Vietnam and would have been able to resist the rising tide of the pressure. The lesson there seems to be that the President, not the advisors, make the decision. Bundy (and others) distinguish Johnson as the great legislator, but not necessarily the kind of independent leader needed for foreign policy decisions to make strategy, stay the convictions, and resist the completely unsupported evidence put before them (it was really shocking how no one ever really analyzed what we wanted out of the war! Or what it would take!). (less)

like

· see review

Dec 05, 2009

judy rated it

· review of another edition

Shelves: history

Ignore the stars. I read it for a specific reason and that would not be McGeorge Bundy. The rumor has been out that everyone in the White House has been reading this book. I'm sure Obama has--and he was probably the first. It is now just days after Obama took over the war in Afghanistan. I wanted to see whether he had observed the Lessons in Disaster. I feel comfortable that he has. His brain and style would never allow decisions to be made as they were in the Johnson White House. That does ...more

like

· see review

May 05, 2010

Olivia rated it

· review of another edition

This book has made me quite skeptical about the leaders in our government. Of course, I hope all the current leaders have all read this and learned from it.
Through 6 lessons, Goldstein writes about the many mistakes of the American administration during Kennedy's and LBJ's presidencies. We all know that the Vietnam War ended badly, but I did not realize it was jumped into so blindly. Even when they were presented with research that the chances of winning were slim to nothing, they still pr...more

like

· see review

Nov 02, 2010

Jerry Landry rated it

· review of another edition

Shelves: 2010-reads, political-history-reads

A good book, but not as good as I had read in reviews. While I understand the beginnings of the Vietnam War a bit better after this read, I just didn't get a feel from this book that McGeorge Bundy was really an influential member of either the Kennedy or Johnson administration. He was too much of a war hawk for Kennedy to take his advice, and he burnt bridges with Johnson by constantly harping on about air strikes when Johnson wanted boots on the ground. I didn't get a good sense of why he was ...more

like

· see review

Nov 10, 2009

Garrett rated it

· review of another edition

Shelves: history, war, politics

Lessons in Disaster provides a wonderful behind-the-scenes look at the political machinations and gamesmanship roiling in the White House. McGeorge Bundy was the national security advisor for Presidents Kennedy and Johnson. The author, Gordon Goldstein, had worked extensively with Bundy in his later years for a biography that eventually fell through. Goldstein wrote this book instead. He examines the choices that led to the expansion of the Vietnam War. Kennedy comes out looking much better than...more

like

· see review

Jul 06, 2011

Kerry rated it

· review of another edition

For history junkies like myself, how is this one possible to resist?! Bundy's immediate admitting to having part in a great failure in American history with it's involvement in the Vietnam war while also making statements like: Kennedy didn't want to be dumb" and Johnson didn't want to be a coward" within the first few pages?! Tantalizing. Pow! Bam! Boom! (cue Adam west)

Then of course the story of Bundy presenting a paper to the class where his classmates snickered through it...moreFor history junkies like myself, how is this one possible to resist?! Bundy's immediate admitting to having part in a great failure in American history with it's involvement in the Vietnam war while also making statements like: Kennedy didn't want to be dumb" and Johnson didn't want to be a coward" within the first few pages?! Tantalizing. Pow! Bam! Boom! (cue Adam west)

Then of course the story of Bundy presenting a paper to the class where his classmates snickered through it. When asked why? Bc he gave a superb delivery from a blank piece of paper. You sir, are what the kids call, a baller. Most delectably so when Yale asked you to write an essay on what you did on your summer vacation and you upbraided them for their banal question. I knew you were something special already.

Bundy was one of those who's intelligence stymies others while tiptoing on the edge of blantant arrogance. Sigh there are so few of us out there. The quote "the US is the locomotive at the head of mankind & the rest of the world the caboose" is not going to make you any friends in the world's playground sir...but I'd share my snack pack w him any day. Now now not bc I believe that of the US but bc it takes a sort of...panache to pull off a comment like that without blinking. Tell me more!

But then as well all know nothing good lasts forever and right out of the gates we learn of Bundy's role in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. You can assuredly tell that Bundy is an educated man, but it seems he never asks all of the questions about what the fallout of it all may be. This does not bode well... It means well, it just doesn't bode well.

Now personally I'm torn with Kennedy's response. Though I think personally I respect that he stuck to his guns on this. He told his advisors he was not going to allow US military involvement and he damn well didn't. It is always hard to see people fighting for their freedom have the rest of the world turn their back on them. I know there are many reasons for such a thing, political and otherwise, but it's still painful to see in humanity. (see, I DO have a heart...occasionally). Still thou, extra props to Kennedy for facing up to the failed mission. He didn't try to save face by sending in the troops to bomb Cuba to hell...but then again more than a few people still wish he had.

It is a fascinating read thou to see how Kennedy stuck to his decision to stay out of Vietnam as long as possible, even as the rest of his advisors pushed for it, Bundy included. What makes this one hit home though, is right in the second chapter where it explains how often Bundy went to the DC Vietnam memorial and ran his hands over the names etched in stone, constantly re-evaluating his role in such a costly mass of human life. While the history is fascinating to read about in hopes to wrap your mind around the reasoning, far too little is spoken about the weight these men (and now women) carry with these decisions about the lives of soldiers and American citizens. Well played Goldstein. Well played.

It is a facinating study of contrasts thou to see the steps and arguments that take place when debating whether to enter the arena in a war. It comes down to what's in it for us of course. And while bundy at the time thou not easily, justified his support of Americanizing the Vietnam war, in hindsight he saw how wrong he was. But then as we all know hindsight is 20/20 for us all. What piques my curiosity the most is what would have happened if Kennedy had not been assassinated. He fought tooth & nail to stay out of military action, most ESP after the Bay of Pigs. Which leads to if that was one of the reasons for his assassination.

But then we all know history repeats itself. (cough::desert storm::) but it will still always depend on how big the bait is for us in the decision at hand...(less)

like

· see review

Jun 19, 2010

Peter Jana rated it

Shelves: history_vietnam, history

Similar to Robert McNamara - but in a more restrained way - McGeorge Bundy critically looked back at his decisions during the Vietnam years, took stock of his mistakes, and concluded that the war never should have happened. Lessons in Disaster is not Bundy's memoir. It was written by Gordon M. Goldstein, the co-author of a history of the war started by Bundy but left incomplete due to Bundy's death. Using his access to Bundy's personal notes, Goldstein makes a strong case that if John Kenned...moreSimilar to Robert McNamara - but in a more restrained way - McGeorge Bundy critically looked back at his decisions during the Vietnam years, took stock of his mistakes, and concluded that the war never should have happened. Lessons in Disaster is not Bundy's memoir. It was written by Gordon M. Goldstein, the co-author of a history of the war started by Bundy but left incomplete due to Bundy's death. Using his access to Bundy's personal notes, Goldstein makes a strong case that if John Kennedy were not assassinated, the Vietnam war never would have escalated into the ground war quagmire that it became. [LBJ reversed JKK's no ground troops policy with the advice and consent of Bundy and others.:]

Interesting tidbits:

1) The CIA tried to manipulate Kennedy during the Bay of Pigs. Kennedy told them that he would not, under any circumstances, directly use American military power to assist the exile forces. The CIA expected the mission would fail without direct American military support but conducted it anyway. The CIA undertook the operation without sharing this conclusion and assumed that JFK would reverse his policy in the midst of the operation. After this incident the president would never completely trust his senior military advisers. Note how the military wanted to bomb Cuba during the missile crisis, which would have led to a much larger war, perhaps a nuclear exchange (38-40). The best thing to come out of the Bay of Pigs was a president skeptical of military leadership.

2) Bundy thought that we should fight in Vietnam even if we lose. We have to show the rest of the world American resolve to fight Communism. The gains from demonstrating the resolve are much greater than the consequences of losing a war.

3) Critics of the war: George Ball (Undersecretary of State) was one of the very few members of LBJs cabinet who opposed escalating the war. Also see the Morganthau/Bundy debate p. 194. Other anti-war voices in government include Robert Kennedy. Check out Walter Lipmann's anti-war writing.

Review from NYRB: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives...

(less)

like

· see review

Jan 10, 2010

Bill rated it

McGeorge Bundy was Dean of Harvard University and National Security Advisor for Presidents Kennedy and Johnson. Henry Kissinger and Condeela Rice followed Bundy as national security advisors before becoming secretaries of state. Goldstein has a PhD in international relations and is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Bundy and Goldstein had been collaborating for 18 months to write a book covering Bundy's national security advisor experiences and the Vietnam War prior to the...moreMcGeorge Bundy was Dean of Harvard University and National Security Advisor for Presidents Kennedy and Johnson. Henry Kissinger and Condeela Rice followed Bundy as national security advisors before becoming secretaries of state. Goldstein has a PhD in international relations and is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Bundy and Goldstein had been collaborating for 18 months to write a book covering Bundy's national security advisor experiences and the Vietnam War prior to the Bundy's unexpected death on April 16, 1996. That date was 34 years after the beginning of the War and Bundy's national security advisor role in the Kennedy Administration.
Goldstein and Bundy were at the beginning stages of the book when Bundy died. Bundy left a disorganized collection of memos and many note fragments. Goldstein reorganized these materials and interviewed many of the survivors in both administrations to provide information for this lessons learned book.

Among the lessons learned by Kennedy was never trust the bureaucracy to take effective action. The bureaucracy's less than effective action caused the hugely embarrassing loss at the Bay of Pigs.

In spite of Kennedy's involvement in the Diem coup, he strongly ordered that U. S. military personnel in Vietnam were to only act as advisors and trainers. Kennedy, according to Bundy, believed that if U. S. combat forces were sent to Vietnam the war would become Americanized. On November 22, 1963, the date of Kennedy's murder, 108 American military personnel had been killed in Vietnam. Fifty eight thousand more would die before the end of the war.

Bundy believed that LBJ exaggerated the Gulf of Tonkin incident in August, 1964 in a successful effort to persuade Congress to give him almost unlimited powers to conduct the Vietnamese War. Bundy in a letter written in 1994 described Johnson as being

"…kind and mean, open and closed, brave and timid, sensitive and unfeeling, careful and rash, trusting and suspicious, self-centered and generous."

The huge and fundamental lesson learned is the question of what resources would be required to force North Vietnam to meaningfully negotiate. LBJ and Bundy paid little attention to this question. Bundy, thirty years later, castigated himself for paying so little attention to such an important matter that affected the lives of so many. As a result of lack of strategic thought the U. S. engaged in a war of attrition. North Vietnamese losses were at least an order of magnitude greater than those of the U. S. Yet, they outlasted the U. S. and won the war.

Afghanistan??
(less)

like

· see review

Jan 22, 2011

Peter rated it

· review of another edition

Conviction without rigor is a strategy (recipe) for disaster. Absence of rigorous analysis during key decisionmaking periods in 1965 (decision to increase bombing; insert Marines to protect air bases; transition Marines' duties to offensive COIN operations; insert additional American ground forces). McGB had the conviction that the U.S. needed to increase its stake in the war for political purposes (he felt the potential damage to American prestige of a near-term loss exceeded that of a loss aft...more

like

· see review

Sep 27, 2009

Ward Bell marked it as to-read · review of another edition

What inspired me to buy was this in the context of a discussion about our policy in Afghanistan:

"The Times Book Review cheered it as “an extraordinary cautionary tale for all Americans.” The reviewer was, of all people, the diplomat Richard Holbrooke, whose career began in Vietnam and who would later be charged with the Afghanistan-Pakistan crisis by the new Obama administration."

like

· see review

Dec 07, 2009

Tom rated it

· review of another edition

I read this in January 2009, and see it's what all in the White House have been reading since this summer and before the big December decision for troop requests for Afghanistan.
<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/asia/06reconstruct.html>
Very good book and very good history of the writing of the book itself (qv, Goldstein working with Bundy before his death).

like

· see review

May 20, 2011

Jesse rated it

· review of another edition

Shelves: historical, thought-provoking

Excellent read. This is a must for anyone interested in the Vietnam War and its effects on the American society. This piece gives are remarkably balanced examination of Bundy and the decisions that led to the disaster that was Vietnam.

like

· see review

Jan 17, 2010

Dave rated it

· review of another edition

Shelves: history, read-in-2010

This is a first step in my quest to understand Vietnam from a variety of standpoints. Goldstein does a good job in writing this; he makes it feel like he's simply quoting McGeorge Bundy the whole time. Bundy's analysis of his and others' roles in the framing and inner-workings of the war lead me to my next steps. I need a good biography of LBJ and a book that covers the work within the government(s) of South (and North, if it exists) Vietnam. One small peeve. Between this and Fog of War, I'm a l...more

like

· see review

Feb 21, 2010

Frank Kelly rated it

Shelves: 2010, asia-pacifica, china, foreign-policy, intelligence, military, national-security, vietnam, sept6-sept6

This book was sited in numerous publications as a primer inside the Obama White House as the President mulled over what strategy to pursue in Afghanistan. Goldstein has written a fine book - and important book - on presidential decision making. But he's also written a book on how the brightest are not necessarily the best in advising the President or speaking truth to power. Clearly this was the case with McGeorge Bundy who is the focus of the book. But he was not alone. And ultimately it is an ...more

like

· see review

Oct 02, 2009

Bob marked it as to-read · review of another edition

I'm grateful that the closest I got to S. E. Asia was having a draft card. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

like

· see review

Jan 11, 2011

David Mueller is currently reading it · review of another edition

Any presidential cabinet contemplating the use of military force should be locked in a room and slapped with this book.

like

· see review

Sep 28, 2009

Claire S marked it as to-read · review of another edition

Recommended to Claire by: News

Shelves: a-1-_-pol-crucial, fiction-not-at-all, g_afghanistan, g_colonialism, g_imperialism, g_india-and, g_pakistan, global, historical, indexia, obama-term-1, pol-historical, pol-paradigm-shift-pssbl, politics-learning, war-mltry-conflt-occ, u-s-hist, u-s-hist_military

Mentioned here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/opinio...

Sounds fascinating and useful..

like

· see review

Jan 04, 2011

Ken Moten rated it

Recommends it for: Political, Vietnam, War enthusiast

Recommended to Ken by: Jack Lechelt

I think this book does a very decent job at telling the early story of Vietnam both the good AND BAD. I think Bundy's opinion is was still that of non-regret but at least he was able to cite honestly the errors of the JFK/LBJ Administrations.

like

· see review

Aug 29, 2010

Bob Russell rated it

· review of another edition

First heard about the book last fall in a Frank Rich op-ed in the NYT, as "the book everyone in Washington is reading." An excellent look at the mistakes make in Washington from 1961-1965 as regards Vietnam, primarily through the eyes of McGeorge Bundy,the national security advisor to Kennedy and then Johnson. Well-written and thoughtful analysis of how smart people make terrible decisions, driven by political and military expediency and deliberately ignoring the facts on the ground....more

like

· see review

Dec 22, 2008

Dave rated it

· review of another edition

An amazing book that takes you into the mind of Kennedy National Security Advisor McGeorge Bundy, based on conversation author Gordon Goldstein had with Bundy while collaborating on the former advisors never published memoir. Bundy along with McNamara was one of the administrations Best and Brightest whose guidance led to the Americanization of the Vietnam War first while working under Kennedy and then as part of Johnson’s staff.

like

· see review

Aug 19, 2011

Tobi rated it

· review of another edition

This was a really detailed book about just what the title says. If you are very interested in the history of US involvement in Vietnam and how it came about, this is the book for you. Reading this helped me to realize I'm not very interested in that part of history.

like

· see review

Oct 23, 2011

Jacqui rated it

· review of another edition

I find this one fascinating so far. A little hard for me to read on the morning commute - so many facts! - but I'm hoping it gets easier with more caffeine consumption, wakeful hours.

like

· see review

Dec 18, 2009

Tim rated it

· review of another edition

It is really scary in what we do not learn from the past often comes back to haunt us. This was extremely well written and did not get bogged down in the small details.

like

· see review

Dec 30, 2008

Eric_W marked it as to-read · review of another edition

Interesting review at http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/pri...

like

· see review

Dec 13, 2009

Ceylontjaya rated it

EVERYBODY AT WHITE HOUSE READING THIS ONE

like

· see review

Feb 05, 2012

Pam W added it · review of another edition

Jan 31, 2012

Mark marked it as to-read · review of another edition

title link	preview: Lessons in Disaster: McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam
avg rating	preview: Lessons in Disaster: McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam Goodreads rating: 3.97 (89 ratings)
small image	preview: click here [close]
med image	preview: click here [close]
BBCode	[url=http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6760171-lessons-in-disaster?utm_medium=api&utm_source=blog_book][img]http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1312050915m/6760171.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6760171-lessons-in-disaster?utm_medium=api&utm_source=blog_book]Lessons in Disaster: McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam by Gordon M. Goldstein[/url]

Lessons in Disaster: McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam

Friend Reviews

Lists with This Book

Community Reviews

new topic
Discuss This Book

combine
Other Editions (3)

Genres

Readers Also Enjoyed

Share This Book

Share This Book on Your Website

Trivia About Lessons in Disast...

Lessons in Disaster: McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam

Friend Reviews

Lists with This Book

Community Reviews

new topicDiscuss This Book

combine Other Editions (3)

Genres

Readers Also Enjoyed

Share This Book

Share This Book on Your Website

Trivia About Lessons in Disast...

new topic
Discuss This Book

combine
Other Editions (3)