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"They Say / I Say": The Moves That Matter in Academic Writing with Readings
Identifying the moves that matter in academic writing in ways that students can readily understand and apply.
They Say/I Say (With Readings) shows that writing well means mastering some key rhetorical moves, the most important of which involves summarizing what others have said ("they say") to set up one’s own argument ("I say"). In addition to exp...more
They Say/I Say (With Readings) shows that writing well means mastering some key rhetorical moves, the most important of which involves summarizing what others have said ("they say") to set up one’s own argument ("I say"). In addition to exp...more
Paperback, 507 pages
Published
March 19th 2009
by W. W. Norton & Company
(first published September 1st 2005)
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I've taught the shorter, rhetoric-based version of this text before, and now, after having moved away from it to teach other texts that seemed even more "democratic" than this, I'm returning to this text next semester because other texts simply don't inspire students to begin writing with near as much purpose and confidence as this one does. I've ordered my copy of the 2nd edition, actually, which comes out on 15 November 2011. The rhetorical chapters haven't changed;
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This book, given to me by my dear friend Scott who studied under Gerald Graff, singlehandedly improved my essays. It seems weird to have templates for writing essays, but they gave me better ideas about how to enter conversations in my essays and how to move from one paragraph to the next. I had my students read the whole book and then asked them to have 7 out of the 10 elements in their essays. The only things that I've noticed to be confusing for people is their absolute negativity towards usi...more
Skimmed it and find it great for use in a composition class, or any writing-intensive class; great spirit, very democratic – essentially urges openmindedness, urging student writers to listen attentively to others (esp those with views that oppose their own), but the book doesn’t urge this in a lofty way – it’s very practical and usable in showing students how to effectively summarize while using the "I" to voice their own opinions as part of the ongoing conversation. The intellectual...more
Though a person who is a good reader will probably already possess many of the skills outlined in this book, even such writer's would likely benefit from seeing them laid out in such a clear and detailed fashion. This book puts into words what many teachers of writing struggle to articulate and outlines several frameworks, exercises, and even templates that beginning writers might use to jump start their own pieces. Another thing this book does well as accurately identify the importance of readi...more
When it comes to the topic of learning to write through imitation, Romantic writers—those that claim that style and originality trump everything—must bristle at the idea of templates, asserting that adhering to such confinements would rot their style. This assertion should swiftly end, however, upon discovering that every one of the great writers of the sentence (Shakespeare, Austen, Byron, Keats etc.) learned to write through imitation.
In terms of the simplicity to usefulness ratio...more
In terms of the simplicity to usefulness ratio...more
My writing is often competent, but not as effective as I'd like. I bought this expecting to screen it for use as a corrective to my students. I found it surprisingly useful for myself, although at a fairly detailed level. The most useful thing they say, which I should have known already, but didn't, is that it is critically important to remember that one's academic writing is a contribution to an ongoing discussion that one's reader likely has not been paying close attention to. As such, one...more
Though I didn't completely agree with everything they had to say, this book was incredibly helpful. I plan on using it heavily as a resource next semester and really wish that I'd had it last year. I only wish I could make all my students read it, but I don't have that flexibility right now. A LOT of food for thought and a fantastic way of looking at academic discourse. I was heading this direction in my mind, but having it so well expressed and ready for me is amazing. If you teach at pretty mu...more
Ok I didn't read all of this, but what I read was quite useful. "They Say/ I Say" is a brief guide to lead students away from the usual five-paragraph essay. I know most of this stuff, but I wouldn't recommend it to a college kid; this seems much more appropriate for high school freshmen.
While this book is great for essay structure, I don't think it's very ideal for writing about literature. "They Say/ I Say" seems suitable for objective argumentation such as deb...more
While this book is great for essay structure, I don't think it's very ideal for writing about literature. "They Say/ I Say" seems suitable for objective argumentation such as deb...more
They Say/I Say is basically a series of templates for creating persuasive writing, especially academic writing. While some might rail against the idea of templates as too limiting or rigid, in fact the authors themselves say that the point of the templates is to draw explicit attention to why some writing is more effective than others. If we know what makes an argument persuasive, we can better use those techniques ourselves. Indeed, the authors' point is that writers should learn these templ...more
Excellent text for any writer. I just finished teaching this in my freshman comp class, and I think every writer should have this on hand. In the text, Graff and Berkenstein offer templates intended to help freshman or beginner writers learn how to respond to others' work and present their own views. Many new writers have a hard time including sources in their own work, and more to the point, doing so properly. While some may find the idea of templates limiting to a writer, they can function...more
If you're in college or grad school or an M.F.A. who would like a quick lesson in academic writing then I strongly suggest this book. It's uncomplicated and quite helpful. If you're in grad school or already teaching, you could possibly skip the examples they site in the back of the book. I actually found those writings quite poor; especially the one about beauty. Using the "moves" the authors suggested, I would have rewritten this article to contain more of their suggestions - but tha...more
Informative in terms of getting ideas for pinning down points of view and learning specific terms and phrases for rhetorical modes like comparison/contrast or transitioning between paragraphs, etc--but I'm very wary, very very wary of using templates. Inevitably, templates become too formulaic, and the students end up regurgitating the same terms, phrases, and words without any originality or creativity in wielding our English language.
This was on the 'optional' list for my Practical Criticism class, but the 3rd time the prof mentioned it during lecture, I decided to buy it. I found it very worthwhile, and curiously, reading templates about how other people share their opinions made me more confident about using a strong voice in my papers. I went from B+ and A- papers to A and A+ ones...and feel as though my papers are MORE my own.
I really could have used this book in college. Graff explains that many seasoned writers pick up on key intellectual moves unconsciously through their reading; but, I'm afraid that I was so facsinated by what I was reading and learning that I wasn't one of them. If I could have 'demystified' the academic conversation earlier, I could have used Strunk and White much more effectively:)
This book is great for teaching students (or teaching yourself) how to write. It manages to clearly articulate many things I made broad gestures towards, and it includes examples, exercises and templates of sentences to make essay writing more nuanced and smooth.
I highly recommend this to anyone who wants to explicitly understand writing.
I highly recommend this to anyone who wants to explicitly understand writing.
When introduced to this small volume by a fellow teacher I will assist this summer, I was a little skeptical - many expository and narrative about writing that I've encountered as a student have been too theoretical, but at the same time, textbooks and handbooks have always seemed unrealistically formulaic. However, I think the authors of They Say, I Say really give the student-reader an accessibly explicit way to approach and practice argumentative writing and make a good case for using thei...more
Read this as per advice from a respected professor. While I usually think I'm the best writer ever, I gave this a shot. Basically details a stripped down, basic concept of how to get a worthwhile argument across in a research paper. The idea is very simple and seemingly obvious once you boil it all down, but it's served me well thus far.
The new edition is very current, and I enjoyed the reading topics, particularly the ones on globalization. The rhetorical section had some fresh ways to explain different analytical moves in writing, which I am going to try out. I think the templates will help some and hinder others--we'll see how it goes in the classroom.
Academic writing is based on the idea of ‘entering the conversation’ of those in the field. This book examines how – right down to sentence format, ‘templates’—writers rhetorically move between the ideas of others and their own arguments. Worthwhile ideas.
I've used this once as a textbook and will be using it again as a resource for lesson plans for my freshman composition students. They Say/I Say offers useful templates for the novice (and even seasoned) reader, which are all backed by well-reasoned explanations.
My students did not care for it last semester but probably because I used it too infrequently and did not justify it's benefits thoroughly enough. However, I find it invaluable in planning my lessons as it offers ready-ma...more
My students did not care for it last semester but probably because I used it too infrequently and did not justify it's benefits thoroughly enough. However, I find it invaluable in planning my lessons as it offers ready-ma...more
Teachers of any subject area who help students craft academic essays should take some time to read this book. its short (I think I read it in 3 hours) and has some great ideas for helping kids craft their arguments with support of outside research.
While I would never recommend this to anyone, it is SOMEWHAT good at teaching the concepts of rhethorical debate in a casual and effective manner. Just reads like lava that is hardening on your skin - slow and agonizingly painful.
I think this is helpful for students starting out in college, but some of these ideas and their application can become obsolete or impractical at later stages in writing. However, I thought their use of diagrams and criticisms of academia and academic writing were spot on. Writing is a skill people should continually learn, not something to be dangled in front of students as if they might never "get" what writing is. As the authors point out, even some "good" academic writers...more
This book really helped me improve on my writing skills. The authors provided fundamental rules to make the most of persuasive essays by using the "they say I say" method. The reason why I recommend this book than any other English academic books is that they understand there are also exceptions to some of those rules, like the usage of the word "I" in a paragraph. There was also tons of template examples to use for writing. I came up with the realization that it is funny ho...more
Some of the best advice for student writers that I've ever encountered. This book changed the way that I think about writer's block and the difficulty some students have to adjusting to academic writing.
This is a great book, for teachers and students, "I Say". This book benefit me in a way that I could have never imagine. I am thinking about writing my own book, and friends tell me to go for it "They Say".
This is absolutely my jam for teaching college writing. It is so readable and accessible, and it gives student concrete, directly applicable examples. This book has improved my own academic writing, actually.
At the very least, the authors of this text understand that you can't actually teach someone how to write and that you basically have to do force them into imitation if they aren't readers.
Used in my AP English class... It was really helpful with making strong arguments in papers/essays/life in general... I recommend it as a good reference piece to use/have
I read this as soon as it was published, and I use it now to teach my writing classes. I think it is wonderful--I wish it existed when I was writing papers in college.
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