11th out of 20 books
—
14 voters
Babel-17 (SF Masterworks, #06)
In the far future, after human civilization has spread through the galaxy, communications begin to arrive in an apparently alien language. They appear to threaten invasion, but in order to counter the threat, the messages must first be understood.
Paperback, 195 pages
Published
2001
by Gollancz
(first published 1966)
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I have always believed that the language you speak determines the way you think. How else can it be, really?

I am a trilingual person who has quite a few monolingual family members, and I can't even tell you how many times in frustrated fascination I have contemplated the peculiarities of languages, the plays on words that are often impossible to translate, the confusing idioms, and the frustrating lack of certain concepts in one language as compared to another. So many times I realized that mer...more

I am a trilingual person who has quite a few monolingual family members, and I can't even tell you how many times in frustrated fascination I have contemplated the peculiarities of languages, the plays on words that are often impossible to translate, the confusing idioms, and the frustrating lack of certain concepts in one language as compared to another. So many times I realized that mer...more
Aug 05, 2008
Ceridwen
rated it
5 of 5 stars
·
review of another edition
Recommends it for:
SF nerds who hate the usual SF prose
Recommended to Ceridwen by:
Rob
Sometimes scifi of this vintage can really suck, and I can't grok it at all. (See what I did there? Anyone? Okay, it's kind of lame.) Sometimes the upheavals of the late 60s in terms of race, gender and the like get glossed in scifi in lieu of a future dominated by Joe Blaster righting the imperial imperatives of whatever Federation, Empire, etc. One could even argue that gleaming beauty of the Federation on Star Trek acts as a foil for the redemption of the white male protagonist. See everyone,...more
...Babel-17 certainly deserves its status as a classic of the genre. Although a linguist would probably have a field day pointing out all the errors in Delany's novel, and the strong version of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is currently considered disproven, Delany has managed to build a very good novel around these concepts. It is a novel that does what science fiction ought to do, provoke thought on scientific theories and concepts that are packed into a good story. It's obvious why this novel ma...more
The linguistic issue introduced here is not entirely new. For example, in The Languages of Pao (Jack Vance) a similar theme is addressed. Babel-17, however, is considered a Science Fiction classic. It was released around the same time as Dune, with a year or so separating them. Therein lies the problem. Dune had become the new standard, or benchmark, against which all Space Operas were gauged. And it had set the standard pretty darn high. So, Babel-17 is a colourful, clever book, but it's no Dun...more
Sep 14, 2010
Virginia
rated it
3 of 5 stars
·
review of another edition
Shelves:
speculative-fiction,
read-2010
Well, that was quite the head-trip. I do not know if I am smart enough to understand even half of what went on in this book. Delany wields words at times like a surgeon - precise and meticulous, and at other times like a bludgeon. I barely understood what was going on, but the images! They swirled in and out and kept changing when new words and concepts were added in.
At times, I even felt as if this were a linguistics treatise (and it is, kind of...). I lacked the vocabulary to make sense of it...more
At times, I even felt as if this were a linguistics treatise (and it is, kind of...). I lacked the vocabulary to make sense of it...more
Babel-17 è un linguaggio e che cosa sono i linguaggi? Non sono solo lo strumento attraverso cui esprimiamo i nostri pensieri, concetti, idee. Al contrario, le parole e le regole sintattiche servono a creare quei pensieri, quei concetti e quelle idee.
Alcuni pensieri semplicemente non potrebbero esistere se non fossero espressi da quelle parole.
E se la lingua in questione è quella utilizzata da una civiltà altamente progredita, ecco allora che cercare di comprenderla vuol dire soprattutto aprire...more
Alcuni pensieri semplicemente non potrebbero esistere se non fossero espressi da quelle parole.
E se la lingua in questione è quella utilizzata da una civiltà altamente progredita, ecco allora che cercare di comprenderla vuol dire soprattutto aprire...more
“Abstract thoughts in a blue room: Nominative, genitive, elative, accusative one, accusative two, ablative, partitive, illative, instructive, abessive, adessive, inessive, essive, allative, translative, comatative.” Delany's work is always intriguing, and I enjoyed this more than The Einstein Intersection, which dealt more with music than language. Rydra Wong and her ragtag crew of cosmetically altered misfits fly in the ship Rimbaud, named for the legendary French poet, on a mission to find the...more
To read something so playful in language, so inventive in language, is a treat. To read something so intelligent regarding language, to decide what language is important and how it becomes important and why different languages may possibly lead to different cultural ideas (and vice versa) is also a treat. To have it wrapped in a wonderful bundle of book full of spies, "pirates", Galactic War, far-flung trips through space, aliens, futuristic foods and body modification ... goes beyond the richne...more
All the excitement and camp of vintage space action SF, plus the headiness and intellectual excitement I expect from Delany. Babel-17 overflows not just with vivid, hallucinatory imagery of the author's vision of the future, but with stimulating ideas about the nature of language and perception. Foregoing the ponderous exposition found in many SF books, Delany shows you the rules of his reality instead of telling you about them, which makes all the difference between a tight, well-paced book and...more
This book totally rocked my world. It's a sexy and intelligent kind of space opera that keeps you guessing. So much to like here... Delany isn't afraid to jump back and forth between dense dialogue and thrilling conflict. More than anything this is a psychological novel, one that explores the nuances of communication, identity and love. There is a lot of sci-fi out there that "sounds" the same, but Delany's voice here is startling. Babel-17 is comprised of engrossing action, romance, and ideas.....more
This was the first "traditional" sci-fi novel I have read, so it was a bit harder to get into at first. I know a lot of people love this book, and it's gained awards that establish its merit, but I just could not get into Delany's writing style. It's very scientific, so it loses me at a lot of parts where he describes things or has the characters talking about things that I have no idea how to process or materialize in my mind. The characters are interesting, but they weren't believable to me. R...more
La lettura di un libro di Delany non è mai semplice. L’ambientazione è fantascientifica, piena di idee ed immaginazione nel creare mondi nuovi, nuove società, nuovi esseri viventi, ma alla base della storia c’è sempre una riflessione ben più profonda. In questo romanzo, si riflette sulle lingue, e sui linguaggi di comunicazione in generale e, anche se si arriva a colpi di scena inattesi, non sempre il racconto è facile da seguire. Ci sono parti molto belle anche narrativamente, come tutto il per...more
(v0.1/07.10.12)
What is all about?(review,summary,UPS).
Do you remember about dreaming of going to a botanic garden? ...yes it's so beautiful, so exotic, so crowded with life&color, and it's so mind-blowing, it's like you are in dream.....
Honestly I do not want to understand what happened ... but it's about the theory of languages, the neuron-ic melody it generates in your mind.... it's about humans, less about evolution(inter galaxy traveling) and more about what we are and what we are togeth...more
What is all about?(review,summary,UPS).
Do you remember about dreaming of going to a botanic garden? ...yes it's so beautiful, so exotic, so crowded with life&color, and it's so mind-blowing, it's like you are in dream.....
Honestly I do not want to understand what happened ... but it's about the theory of languages, the neuron-ic melody it generates in your mind.... it's about humans, less about evolution(inter galaxy traveling) and more about what we are and what we are togeth...more
I thought I spoke decent English till I ran into Robin Hobb's Assasin books. I thought I could write a decent English sentence till I read Samuel Delaney's "Babel 17" this week, 3 times.
For the first time since I was 8 or 9 and struggled with an old dictionary to read a John Steinbeck story by myself, I feel I am a guest in the English language and don't know much more of it's house than the room I have had a wonderful evening in and the bathroom.
Babel 17 is simply mind blowing. It is written i...more
For the first time since I was 8 or 9 and struggled with an old dictionary to read a John Steinbeck story by myself, I feel I am a guest in the English language and don't know much more of it's house than the room I have had a wonderful evening in and the bathroom.
Babel 17 is simply mind blowing. It is written i...more
I don't get this book.
Worse, I don't buy its setting. If it was comedy or possibly allegory, fine. But it seems to be Big Idea SF. Or is it? It's so preposterous and baroque (it's even got ghosts) that I'm not sure. I don't find it particularly funny anyway.
Still worse, the ending is painfully bad. Exposition! The mysteries are revealed! Lots of books are like this but this time we get preached bad science and plain nonsense. The final clever trick theatratically revelead to the reader involves...more
Worse, I don't buy its setting. If it was comedy or possibly allegory, fine. But it seems to be Big Idea SF. Or is it? It's so preposterous and baroque (it's even got ghosts) that I'm not sure. I don't find it particularly funny anyway.
Still worse, the ending is painfully bad. Exposition! The mysteries are revealed! Lots of books are like this but this time we get preached bad science and plain nonsense. The final clever trick theatratically revelead to the reader involves...more
Luego de Nova, antojado de Delany, encontré en mi lista de espera esta (corta) Balada. Menos osado en su estilo y con personajes más modestos, pero una historia atractiva: Un estudiante analiza una aislada colonia migrante, que tras generaciones llega a su destino cuando el viaje translumínico ya es costumbre. La antigua colonia, renuente al contacto, es estudiada a través de una enigmática Balada. Mas, luego de una osada visita, el estudiante descubre que tras siglos de degradación genética (lo...more
Samuel R. Delany was always one of the great wasted talents of sci-fi. In the very early Sixties, he was one of the first writers to bring a deliberately literary edge to sci-fi, to try to go beyond the hard-science, alien invasion, starship wars conventions of the genre. Delany's early books just turned genre tales inside out, and by the time he reached "The Einstein Intersection" and "Nova" at decade's end, he was writing beautiful, eerie, thought-provoking tales that let you feel part of new...more
SF books rely on the ability to create a world with - in our view - impossible elements and make it appear believable. This book is set in a world where humans have colonized many planets, can travel in a sort of warp-speed way, are able to bring the dead back to life and are all enthralled by the poetry of a single writer. Especially the parts set at earth (searching for a crew) and on Armsedge really took me in.
The narrator writes in two gears: very fast and very slow. He does not like to dawd...more
The narrator writes in two gears: very fast and very slow. He does not like to dawd...more
[9/10] Spectacular. I can see whay it has won some literary prizes back in its day. It packs quite a lot of ideas for the number of pages it has. Most of those ideas relate to language and communication, but there is also weapon development, faster than light navigation, genetic enhancement, a bit of battle action and a memorable trip through a dystopian city peopled with oddball characters, both alive and incorporate.
Beyond the scientific speculations, I have to comment on the narrative style o...more
Beyond the scientific speculations, I have to comment on the narrative style o...more
Samuel R. Delany was on a short list of famous sf authors I have never read, the list includes Cordwainer Smith, Henry Kuttner, C. J. Cherryh, Stephen Baxter and Neal Asher. I will try to get to all of them next year, any recommendations concerning these authors would be welcome.
Babel-17 is a very short novel (too long to be a novella may be) about the power of language, a culture called The Invaders creates a language which can be used to control thoughts and actions through the structure and c...more
Babel-17 is a very short novel (too long to be a novella may be) about the power of language, a culture called The Invaders creates a language which can be used to control thoughts and actions through the structure and c...more
Finished up tonight.
Very strange read. I feel like I must have missed about half of what Delany was trying to do here. But the half I did catch was alternately interesting and frustrating. I felt some of his stylistic and metaphor choices kept pulling me out of the story and into a critical sphere where I was intellectually analyzing the story rather than staying involved in the story. I'm interested to dig up some reviews or other responses to the book to see what others thought.
One of the "big...more
Very strange read. I feel like I must have missed about half of what Delany was trying to do here. But the half I did catch was alternately interesting and frustrating. I felt some of his stylistic and metaphor choices kept pulling me out of the story and into a critical sphere where I was intellectually analyzing the story rather than staying involved in the story. I'm interested to dig up some reviews or other responses to the book to see what others thought.
One of the "big...more
Samuel R. Delany is quickly becoming one of my favorite authors. Like, top-3 material. He’d have to beat out Richard Matheson for that last slot (after Roger Zelazny and Neil Gaiman), which is no easy task, but if Babel-17 is any indication, he’s got a solid chance.
The Einstein Intersection was amazing. The only thing that kept me from giving it 5 stars was that I had no idea what happened at the end. Babel-17 was just as good throughout, but had the added bonus of not confusing the crap out of...more
The Einstein Intersection was amazing. The only thing that kept me from giving it 5 stars was that I had no idea what happened at the end. Babel-17 was just as good throughout, but had the added bonus of not confusing the crap out of...more
It is, above all adventures in space and soul, largely a novel about language. Those with linguistic turn may find it interesting, arguable and poetic. I would recommend to check Steven Pinker's books on language for another, more scientific, view on the subject. It is a good reading for someone who is at the moment writing or translating something of one's own. For someone who is not it is still a good reading. Read it twice myself.
This is a 2,5 star book. I was generous and gave it 3 stars.
I discovered Samuel R. Delany via Jo Walton's book Among Others.
Unfortunately Trouble on Triton, which was written partly in dialogue with Ursula K. Le Guin's anarchist science fiction novel The Dispossessed which I found to be immensely thought-provoking, wasn't available as an audiobook.
After an unpleasant experience with science fictions books about language, Embassytown, I was willing to give the subject another chance.
Babel-17 is m...more
I discovered Samuel R. Delany via Jo Walton's book Among Others.
Unfortunately Trouble on Triton, which was written partly in dialogue with Ursula K. Le Guin's anarchist science fiction novel The Dispossessed which I found to be immensely thought-provoking, wasn't available as an audiobook.
After an unpleasant experience with science fictions books about language, Embassytown, I was willing to give the subject another chance.
Babel-17 is m...more
It's always much more difficult to write a review of something that you loved than of something you didn't. Nothing proves it as much as this book.
The first thing that drew me in was the way it was written. The writing is simply beautiful, and Delany uses vivid, elegant descriptions to paint a picture of his world. It's hard for me to put the feeling of his writing into words, but I can try with this comparison:
We spend a part of our summer by the seaside, in a small village. At night, the sea...more
The first thing that drew me in was the way it was written. The writing is simply beautiful, and Delany uses vivid, elegant descriptions to paint a picture of his world. It's hard for me to put the feeling of his writing into words, but I can try with this comparison:
We spend a part of our summer by the seaside, in a small village. At night, the sea...more
Idea of language used as a weapon is very fascinating. Main character is a linguist and a poet, simply put a prodigy when it comes to communication on any level. Now she is sent to investigate a mysterious form of communication - universal language, codenamed Babel-17 by the military - used by mysterious invading forces that are slowly crawling into space controlled by humans.
Author's style is, mildly put :), unique. First few chapters (when the main character is on a search for the ship crew) f...more
Author's style is, mildly put :), unique. First few chapters (when the main character is on a search for the ship crew) f...more
There's a fascinating quality to "vintage" sci-fi. Maybe it's because there weren't as many subgenres of sci-fi back then; no cyberpunk, no steampunk, no tedious pedants arguing whether "hard" sci-fi or "soft" sci-fi was the truest expression of the genre. Vintage sci-fi, at its best, feels like the writer has a whole universe awaiting them, and that no idea is too outlandish, no territory is too strange to tread. Vintage science fiction feels like anything can happen the next time you turn the...more
Babel-17 (B17) implements a strong version of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (SSW) that is really fun*. It is interesting to consider the increasable abstract advantages of picking one language over another. I love the idea of viral language, (how memes actually do work) and how SWH pushest this idea is fun. In theory B17 is my kind of book (especially after just finishing Mieville's Embassytown, which I really enjoyed), it has great ideas and lots to think about. With that said, the plot and the ch...more
"This book was formative for me. I read it in elementary school, and the powerful message it conveyed about how the language you know shapes the way you are able to think affects me to this day. It's science fiction, won a Nebula Award, reads more like poetry than prose at various points, and isn't for everyone - but if it's for you, it's powerful."
I'm wavering between three and four stars, but I think this gets the benefit of the doubt. Three stars for the fact that the ending - and the last section - felt a little rushed. Four stars for the complex and competent female protagonist (somewhat unusual in SF of the time), the fascinating systems of travel, and the examination of language.
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| Goodreads Librari...: Babel-17 -- Okay to combine/separate? | 2 | 26 | May 02, 2012 08:31pm |
Samuel Ray Delany, also known as "Chip," is an award-winning American science fiction author. He was born to a prominent black family on April 1, 1942, and raised in Harlem. His mother, Margaret Carey Boyd Delany, was a library clerk in the New York Public Library system. His father, Samuel Ray Delany, Senior, ran a successful Harlem undertaking establishment, Levy & Delany Funeral Home, on 7t...more
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“ABSTRACT THOUGHTS in a blue room; Nominative, genitive, etative, accusative one, accusative two, ablative, partitive, illative, instructive, abessive, adessive, inessive, essive, allative, translative, comitative. Sixteen cases of the Finnish noun. Odd, some languages get by with only singular and plural. The American Indian languages even failed to distinguish number. Except Sioux, in which there was a plural only for animate objects. The blue room was round and warm and smooth. No way to say warm in French. There was only hot and tepid If there's no word for it, how do you think about it? And, if there isn't the proper form, you don't have the how even if you have the words. Imagine, in Spanish having to assign a sex to every object: dog, table, tree, can-opener. Imagine, in Hungarian, not being able to assign a sex to anything: he, she, it all the same word. Thou art my friend, but you are my king; thus the distinctions of Elizabeth the First's English. But with some oriental languages, which all but dispense with gender and number, you are my friend, you are my parent, and YOU are my priest, and YOU are my king, and YOU are my servant, and YOU are my servant whom I'm going to fire tomorrow if YOU don't watch it, and YOU are my king whose policies I totally disagree with and have sawdust in YOUR head instead of brains, YOUR highness, and YOU may be my friend, but I'm still gonna smack YOU up side the head if YOU ever say that to me again;
And who the hell are you anyway . . .?”
—
17 people liked it
And who the hell are you anyway . . .?”
“Sometimes you want to say things, and you're missing an idea to make them with, and missing a word to make the idea with. In the beginning was the word. That's how somebody tried to explain it once. Until something is named, it doesn't exist.”
—
6 people liked it
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Basically, during the French Revolution the informal you became...more
updated Jul 27, 2012 12:03pm
Jul 27, 2012 07:26pm