Goodreads | The Iliad

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Lo sublime	4	5	09/07/2007 05:07PM

Abigail rated it:

(review of isbn 0226469379)

04/02/08

bookshelves: greek-roman-antiquity, literature-classics, poetry

recommends it for: Anyone Who Reads...

Translation is everything, so let me begin my review of this foundational masterpiece of Western literature by noting that as it pertains to the question of translators, I am an unabashed partisan for the Richard Lattimore camp. I have had the pleasure of reading Homer's Iliad in the original classical Greek, and have also read three of the major modern translations - Lattimore, Fitzgerald, and Fagles. As an aside, I have also read selections from Alexander Pope's eighteenth-century "transl...more Translation is everything, so let me begin my review of this foundational masterpiece of Western literature by noting that as it pertains to the question of translators, I am an unabashed partisan for the Richard Lattimore camp. I have had the pleasure of reading Homer's Iliad in the original classical Greek, and have also read three of the major modern translations - Lattimore, Fitzgerald, and Fagles. As an aside, I have also read selections from Alexander Pope's eighteenth-century "translation," and have to say that the transformation of dactylic hexameter into rhyming couplets strikes me as somehow akin to trying to trick an Irish wolfhound out as a miniature poodle.

It is not my intention to dispute the poetic skill of either Mr. Fitzgerald or Fagles, and indeed, I retain a nostalgic loyalty to the former's translation of The Odyssey, it being my first exposure to Homer. I suppose that it comes down to what expectations we as readers bring to a translation. Do we expect the translator to remain as faithful as possible to the original text, or do we want him to preference meaning over language? Do we want him to translate form, as well as words, and is that even possible? And just where does one draw the line between "translation" of form and meaning, and adaptation - that impulse to modernize?

These issues took on a more concrete reality for me a few years ago, when I was given the assignment of translating one short passage of this great work, and comparing my efforts to the three works mentioned above. I chose as my selection the lovely and deeply moving exchange between Hector and Andromache in Book 6 (lines 466-481 in the original). For weeks I walked around parsing these sixteen lines, wrestling with their meaning, examining every minute detail, from the opening correlative adverb onward.

In the end, I found that I was not entirely satisfied with either my own humble efforts, or any of the three versions I was to compare it to. A useful reminder that all translation is flawed. I did discover however, that my own instinctive approach to world literature is to attempt to approach it in its own milieu, seeking to understand its meaning while leaving its structure in as pristine a condition as possible. Homer's word choice matters, and so does his line structure.

Which brings me back to Lattimore. His meticulous translation manages to account for almost every word in the original, and to retain its basic shape and structure, while still offering a beautiful and fluid reading experience. An astonishing achievement! He resists the urge to insert vocabulary that has no direct corollary in the text, something for which Fitzgerald is notorious, and even Fagles indulges in upon occasion. I do not doubt that Lattimore is a more difficult read for the modern reader, and it is entirely possible that other versions offer better "poems." But readers who long to have Homer's form "translated" into something more palatable for the modern taste, might want to consider that part of what gives The Iliad meaning, are the culturally-specific forms and vocabulary of the original.

As for The Iliad itself, it is the quintessential expression of the heroic ethos in Western culture, and ranks up there with the Bible as a book one "must" read. Even those who object to the idea of a canon, should know what they are seeking to deconstruct.

I have a difficult time accounting for my great love of this epic poem, as I am rarely in sympathy with the hero, and do not, generally speaking, enjoy war stories. Perhaps it is the occasional flash of humanity that pierces the self-aggrandizing preoccupation with honor? The exchange between Hector and Andromache, for instance. No doubt it is also partly my appreciation for the astonishing beauty and strength of Homer's language.

Of course, for me, the tragedy of the Iliad is not the destruction brought on by Achilles' wrath, but the fall of Ilium itself, and of Hector......less

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Alison rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

05/22/08

Read in May, 2008

I'm often kept up at night brooding on my troubles, wishing I could find some solace that would help me sleep. But now I know that the best way to keep insomnia at bay is to get out of bed, hitch up my chariot, tie the corpse of my mortal enemy to the back, and drive around for a few hours, dragging him, until I cheer up and can go back to sleep. The Iliad is unmatched, in my reading, for works that describe the bloody, ridiculous, selfish lengths people will go in order to feel better....more I'm often kept up at night brooding on my troubles, wishing I could find some solace that would help me sleep. But now I know that the best way to keep insomnia at bay is to get out of bed, hitch up my chariot, tie the corpse of my mortal enemy to the back, and drive around for a few hours, dragging him, until I cheer up and can go back to sleep. The Iliad is unmatched, in my reading, for works that describe the bloody, ridiculous, selfish lengths people will go in order to feel better. The sticks and stones fly (and gouge out eyes, smash skulls, slash livers and veins until the blood sprays--this poem is definitely not for the squeamish), but the real weapons of the Trojan War are name-calling, cheating at games, and stealing your best buddy's girlfriend or mixing bowl or ox. Most of the action occurs when somebody gets his feelings hurt, the baddie won't apologize, and the sensitive one throws a fit, which can involve letting all of his friends die while he gets an olive-oil massage, or else razing a city, raping the women, and joyriding over other men's bones. The Iliad suggests that even at its most glorious, war can be advocated only by people with the emotional lives of spoiled four-year-olds.

Indeed, most people are like spoiled four-year-olds, and truisms like that have resulted in some very tedious books and movies, but the Iliad is never tedious, or rather, only ever horrifically tedious (more on that below), first because it's good art, and secondly because, while many artists have stated, "My emotional life is a shambles," Achilles' emotional life results in the destruction of the rules of engagement, of "civilized" warfare, and of a civilization itself: babies thrown from ramparts, old men cut down at their altars, generations murdered, while Zeus snickers. The Iliad demands that the individual reflect on his or her engagement with the world at large, and the world is not a comfort zone: is it okay to decimate a town, in retaliation for your best friend's death? (Yes.) When you're kidnapped from home and thrown to the soldiers for sexual sport, are you supposed to be grateful? (Yes, and cook them some cheese to show it.) When a man murders your son and desecrates his corpse, what will the gods, to whom you and your son have given many, many sacrifices, do to help you out? (Send you groveling to kiss the murderer's hands, give him some fancy shirts, and have him treat you to some barbecue.)

What else does The Iliad say? That every life matters, and every death. The poem is a rolling casualty list, in which every man who dies has a name, a home, friends, and family who love or mourn or curse or disown him, sometimes a specified quantity of livestock who wonder where he is at milking time. Characters are introduced only to be killed, but their deaths are unique, and nobody dies without causing a change in the fortunes of his comrades or enemies, mostly by precipitating their own deaths. This is where the tedium comes in, but it's a harrowing kind of tedium: gruesome deaths, piled on, can cease to move Achilles, Agamemnon, or us, but they don't stop happening just because we've ceased to pay attention.

And what else? That war can make for great poetry. Fagles' translation is awesome (apart from a couple infelicities--the first "So help me" was hilarious. The fourth one was a little old). The verse is crisp, lucid, immediate, and very, very violent: the accessibility of the syntax and vocabulary make you read faster and faster, so the terrible scenes come upon you like an onslaught, entrails flying, chariots mowing people down, goddesses getting punched in the boobs, and behind it all the ever-present weeping. Egad....less

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Stevelvis rated it:

(review of isbn 0226469409)

02/17/08

Has a copy to sell/swap

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here.

THE ILIAD by HOMER translated by Robert Fagles

Oh My God, I absolutely HATED the Iliad. If you want to read a bunch of reviews by people who loved this book, go to Amazon and read the reviews there. The fans of this book will say that this is the ultimate book of war and this is the best translation ever, that this story shows the courage and manliness and heroics of the soldiers on both sides of the Trojan war even as they are being manipulated by the gods who are having their own argumen...more THE ILIAD by HOMER translated by Robert Fagles

Oh My God, I absolutely HATED the Iliad. If you want to read a bunch of reviews by people who loved this book, go to Amazon and read the reviews there. The fans of this book will say that this is the ultimate book of war and this is the best translation ever, that this story shows the courage and manliness and heroics of the soldiers on both sides of the Trojan war even as they are being manipulated by the gods who are having their own arguments amongst themselves. Perhaps I have simply read the wrong translation as there seems to be the opinion that the translation by Rouse while less poetic is more prosaic and a better read as much of the repetitious poem is edited out.

The Iliad takes place in the 10th year of the Trojan War and its location is between the Argive Greek ships on the beach, the city of Troy, the battlegrounds between the beach and the city, and a tiny bit of story among the Olympiad gods. Actually there is very little of the action that isn't a bloody fight to the death on the battlegrounds. The story takes place in only about 40 days of the 10th year of the war and leaves out all of the most interesting action: the abduction of the princess Helen by Paris the Prince of Troy which starts the war, and the final days of the war in which the city is sacked and Achilles and many of the heroes are killed. What you are left with is an argument at the beginning of the story between Achilles and King Agamemnon, followed by nearly nonstop bloody fighting leading up to the death of Hector the hero of Troy. The story begins by saying that so many thousands of soldiers were killed in the war that it would be impossible to name them all. Then in the next paragraph, the attempt to name all of them begins as you have almost 600 pages of characters who are strangers with no part other than to be introduced and led off the stage as they have been killed by one or another of the heroes.

I read the Iliad because I wanted to read the Odyssey and so decided to read both of the epics together and in order. For anyone else I can now recommend skipping the Iliad altogether, and just go on to the Odyssey. The Iliad was a struggle for me, a very experienced reader, to make it all the way through. More than once I wondered if I should just stop or was it worth reading to the end. Well, now I can say with no problem that I should have skipped it entirely. It was a total waste of my time. I can't imagine being forced to read this as a book assignment in school. It might have turned me off of reading forever. If you're a teacher, please, have mercy on your students, just assign the 10 or 20 good pages. If you're thinking of reading the Iliad for pleasure, go to the bookstore and pick it up and read a few pages and then flip it forward and read another page. Try that a few times and you'll probably decide against it like I should have. The Odyssey on the other hand is a wonderful book that is thoroughly enjoyable, and full of the adventure, mystery and mythology that I had wrongly expected out of the Iliad....less

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Jim rated it:

(review of isbn 0872203522)

01/01/08

bookshelves: greekmythology

Read in July, 2007

"Sprung out of bitterness, the philosophy of the Iliad excludes resentment." Thus Rachel Bespaloff, stating the seemingly impossible. Years ago I read the Iliad in Fitzgerald's fine translation, but every page had the heavy cadence of a "classic." Now I'm reading Fagles' and Lombardo's translations back to back, and am surprised how much I'm enjoying the poem. I don't dispute those who judge Fagles the superior translator, but for me the Lombardo version is far more stirring....more

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Robert rated it:

(review of isbn 0226469409)

08/06/07

Read in September, 1968

recommends it for: anyone

Richmond Lattimore's is the definitive translation into English of Homer's masterwork. It comes closest to the original in word for word meaning, and in poetic form, and in spirit. I've re-read this for almost 40 years, and it never fails to reveal new beauties and new depths. Through the prism of a civilization different from our own, Homer sees the human essence. Homer describes almost all that's admirable or despicable in people, and almost all that drives them, with clarity, feeling, and an ...more

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Kman rated it:

(review of isbn 0471377589)

07/25/07

Read in January, 2000

Homer opens this work, and perhaps all of Western literary history, with an appeal for help and a clearly defined thesis. He asks a muse to help him relate the story of the rage of Achilles. Forgive me for uninvitedly calling Homer's own description of the work lacking. The richness of questions brought up in this work will be apparent to anybody on a first reading. The central preoccupations of the work go beyond the anger of a single man - spanning from the finitude of human existence to the s...more Homer opens this work, and perhaps all of Western literary history, with an appeal for help and a clearly defined thesis. He asks a muse to help him relate the story of the rage of Achilles. Forgive me for uninvitedly calling Homer's own description of the work lacking. The richness of questions brought up in this work will be apparent to anybody on a first reading. The central preoccupations of the work go beyond the anger of a single man - spanning from the finitude of human existence to the sociopolitical duties of a citizen. It is awe-inspiring that a work written so long ago can strike such a powerful chord in so many of us. Nevertheless, it goes without saying that this is a work of art, and, as a consequence, Homer strives to describe and to make us all too painfully aware of the basics of life. We are asked to reflect on not only the standard issues of family and friends, but on our roots, on our attachment to the land, and on our birth and death. Of course, not every squabble of the Gods or cataloguing of the ships strike us as particularly intriguing. Yet in every delightful passage where Homer taunts his genius by pretending to keep substantial issues at bay, proviking issues are to be found. Unsurprisingly, Homer offers us little in the means of answers for the question as to how we are to deal with the profound circumstances that surround us as humans. His use of the "divine" in controlling human affairs may sound too much like an awkwardly familiar tone of existential resignation. For those seeking "answers in life," whatever that may mean, the Illiad is not a bad starting point. We have much in common with Achilles - knowledgable about our own mortality, yet all to eager to presume otherwise. We also sympathize with Hector and the Greek soldiers - it is for the soap operas of the rich and powerful that too many of us shed blood. The striking beauty and emotive appeal of this work cannot be classified as uplifting. Yet the subtlety and craftiness of the spark of joy to be found in our peculiar human condition to which this work speaks should be ample answer for any reader as to why this work has survived for so long....less

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Ryan rated it:

(review of isbn 0385059418)

07/05/07

Read in February, 2006

Wow, what can I say about this book? First of all, it’s 600 pages of pure, incredibly gruesome action. It is also the first war book I’ve ever read that names every single soldier who takes part in the battle, their background, and, of course, an incredibly detailed account of how they are slain. Let me give you an example of poor Erýmas’ fate (Book Sixteen, Line 403):

“Idómeneus thrust hard at Erýmas’ mouth
with his hard bronze. The spearhead passed on through
beneath his ...more

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Jim rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

09/12/08

bookshelves: classics, fantasy, historical, sword-sorcery

I'm not sure, but I think this was the edition I read & liked the best - I've read several over the years. I liked the 'full' or 'best translated' versions & the highly edited versions the least. There's a happy medium in there. The full versions have a lot characters & stuff going on that doesn't add to the story & just confuses me. When edited too much, the story loses its flavor.

The story line, plot, can't be beat. Much of the motivation of the characters seems weak o...more

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Becca rated it:

(review of isbn 0226469409)

05/02/07

bookshelves: alreadyread

Read in January, 2000

recommends it for: Insomniacs

I read this when I can't sleep and my head won't stop whirling with things I haven't done/need to get done. Trust me, next to the godlike (literally) troubles that plague both the Trojans and the Acheans in this epic, your own little issues pale in comparison. Nothing soothes me to sleep better than Homeric prose- brings to mind all those lovely naps in classics classes. Also- this translation is one of the easiest reading ones I've found. If you want to read Homer, give this one a try.

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Laurenj rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

10/08/08

Homer obviously doesn't care enough about Achilles to give him a proper death scene.

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Nicholas rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

11/10/08

Read in November, 2008

What can be said about the Iliad that hasn't already been? It's hard to be critical in any fashion to something so monumental, something meant to be spoken and accompanying a lyre. If he weren't 2,800+ years dead and probably a conglomeration of folks, I'd grab him by his beard and yell 'Who Does This??' Well, apparently a lot of folks back in the way back.

In 21st century parlance, the Iliad could be considered Homer's 'minor' work - ;) -, in comparison to the often-lauded The Ody...more What can be said about the Iliad that hasn't already been? It's hard to be critical in any fashion to something so monumental, something meant to be spoken and accompanying a lyre. If he weren't 2,800+ years dead and probably a conglomeration of folks, I'd grab him by his beard and yell 'Who Does This??' Well, apparently a lot of folks back in the way back.

In 21st century parlance, the Iliad could be considered Homer's 'minor' work - ;) -, in comparison to the often-lauded The Odyssey, held in higher esteem by everyone I've ever come across. Still, knowing that the Iliad precedes Odysseus's long journey, I wanted to embrace my inner Ass, or Mule if you will, and challenge myself to read them in chronological order. It is tough going in the beginning, especially if you don't know which God begets which, what has preceded the 10th year at the shores of Troy, or how many classical Greek names Homer could have memorized. My edition topping out at 400 pages, I felt like I might be carrying this book around in my bag for awhile.

But perhaps unsurprisingly (it's not a towering work for nothing), as the fighting started I myself slowly became wrapped around the competing threads of Homer's descriptive warfare. And being as I read books primarily for intellectual stimulation as opposed to gory blood-lust, it was quite pleasant to watch the Iliad turn into a page-turner right before my eyes -even knowing the outcome of Achilles and Hektor beforehand. I kept saying to myself, it's not 'The Iliad' for nothing. And as one reads on into the depths of Homer's heroic fancy, you just have to simply marvel at how all of this was composed in poetic form and delivered by a humming bard with no access to the written word. It's just stunning.

There is a lot at work in his story-telling style, especially regarding the interplay between God and Man, God and God, and the constant analogies omnipresent between Nature and Man. The Gods seem infallible, yet the Achaian Diomedes injures Aphrodite. They play nudging, quarrelsome roles in mankind's affairs like a chess player observing a game board, but never directly move the pieces (except occasionally to save a loved-mortal from certain death). But they push the results: they plant ideas of escape or fury, forge armor, seed conflict, and generally avail themselves in portentous manners. It was the most interesting device Homer employed for me; what language or guise or form mediates the Godly interplay, how are their decisions made, how are they seen by mortals? Men interpret strong winds, lightning, the turning aside of a spear, the snap of a bowstring, as events manifested through the will of the Gods. Their prayers are heard, their sacrifices responded too, their courage rewarded. Yet the Gods are unpredictable, overzealous, apathetic, fearful of each other, and most of all, impulsive.

One can't talk about the Iliad without discussing its gruesome detail and blatant war-mongering machinations. The constant back-and-forth charges between Achaians and Trojans could be tiresome to readers, but I found Homer's description refreshing in its antiquated form and unpredictable storyline. Also, there is a distinct lack of hatred during the killing (aside from Achilles), and honorable codes, sometimes flummoxing 2,000 years later, yet govern their force.

Homer's ability to convey emotional nuance and subtlety rested squarely on the consistent insertion of parallels between behavior in nature and behavior in mankind; "as the (insert natural behavior), so (insert person and outcome)." As fields of wheat are reaped in autumn, so Achilles reaped his Trojan foes. One can see how a variety of natural scenarios, guidelines for godlike interplay, and family legacy could begin to be molded together in the mind of a masterful story-teller before a group of fireside listeners, and one gets the feeling if only we were so lucky.

...less

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Roni is currently reading it (review of isbn 0226469409)

10/03/08

bookshelves: currently-reading, i-own

I've been working on this for over a year? How pathetic is that? I actually really enjoy reading this book (when I do read it), but find that I hate picking it up unless I have *at least* 60-90 uninterrupted minutes I can devote to it, and that just isn't happening right now. Recommitting myself... I WILL finish, I WILL finish...

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Ashlee rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

03/14/08

bookshelves: -classics-, 50-in--08

Beautiful prose, but very intense. I blame my overactive imagination, but this book gave me nightmares.

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Dave rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

10/23/08

I read this once in high school but didn't get much out of it. This summer I picked it up again as the start to a grand scheme to read a huge chunk of the Greek classics.

I can't believe how I missed so much the first time around! The contrast of Achilles and Hector is awesome. I defy anyone to read this and not conclude that Achilles is a huge bastard. The battle descriptions are gruesome. It is obvious why this work has stood the test of time.

There are some small annoyances though....more

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Bernard rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

10/03/08

Read in September, 2008

I recently listened again to the Lombardo translation of the "Iliad." Lombardo's translation is perhaps the "plainest" of the English poetic translations, making it perhaps the most accessible translation. It also is much more direct than many Homer translations, and Homer was direct. I saw Lombardo read part of his "Odyssey" translation once, and he was quite mesmerizing, and I know he spent years doing readings and performances of various Greek poets so he has...more

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T is currently reading it (review of isbn 0374529051)

11/12/08

bookshelves: currently-reading

Ok, so the only reason I'm reading this book is because the 12-year wunderkind I tutor on alternate Saturdays suggested reading it together. Ack! My usual routine now is to get up early every Sat. he comes over so that I can do my cram reading...
I'm definitely picking an easier read next time!

UPDATE: Oh my god, last Saturday I was feeling quite proud of myself for finishing Book 2 in time to tutor. The wunderkind walks in, however, and declares he's *finished* the whole book. Not only tha...more

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Ivan rated it:

(review of isbn 0140447946)

06/16/08

bookshelves: classics

Read in June, 2008

Engrossing!

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Penny-anna rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

08/31/08

See, this is an awkward book to add, because I've only read one translation - E.V Rieu - and I intend to read another - Robert Fagles, which people have told me is superior. I believe them - I've read some of his other translations. I'm not even sure if I've reviewing the right one.

Anyway. This is, quite obviously and literally, epic - it may be the original epic. It's certainly one of the two earliest surviving Greek epics.
It still remains an incredibly compelling story. The focus isn't usu...more

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Nikki rated it:

(review of isbn 0140275363)

09/08/08

bookshelves: world-literature

Read in September, 2008

recommends it for: Just about everyone; my husband Bruce especially.

I love The Iliad like I love movies like Braveheart and The Gladiator. There is something indescribably cool about tough men kicking some serious butt and taking names.

The action of The Iliad takes place near the end of the Trojan War. When King Agamemnon is forced to give up his prize, the girl Chryses, he enrages Achilles by taking Achilles' prize, the girl Briseis away from him. Achilles, the best warrior of them all, Achaean and Trojan armies combined, refuse...more

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Gilbert rated it:

(review of isbn 0872203522)

09/27/08

Has a copy to sell/swap — Read in September, 2008

recommends it for: Actors, high school males, people who want to read about a gory war

In the preface, Professor Lombardo clearly expresses why and how he chose to translate the Iliad as a work that could be read as a performance. Who would of thought that Homer's written material was supposed to be for a live audience?....actually, that was how the Iliad was known in the first place, as a story told and past on orally right?

I give this specific edition a 4 star rating because Prof. Lombardo did an incredible job of making this work seem like it "happened first in the mo...more

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