1421: The Year China Discovered America by Gavin Menzies - Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists

May 17, 2013 Jason Koivu rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: history, non-fiction

Lots of hearsay and conjecture, but there are some entertaining theories put forth by Menzies in 1421, most of which can't be backed up with factual evidence at this time.

Obviously by the subtitle you get the gist of Menzies' assertions. The China-first-to-the-Americas hypothesis rankles "the West" something awful. Learning that China was on forefront of invention (more thoroughly discussed in Menzies' 1434) has been difficult for Europeans to swallow. No one is readily willing to chant "WE'RE...more

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Jul 07, 2008 Andrew rated it 1 of 5 stars Recommends it for: cynics.

Recommended to Andrew by: My father!! and he liked it!

There are books that break new ground with bombshell research and there are books that spellbind us with the skill of their deception. This book is the latter.
Menzies takes a tremendous dump on the sensibilities of his readers, bombarding us with outrageous claims backed up with erroneous facts and arrogant speculation. A typical "fact" presented by Menzies is introduced with "By this point I was sure..." or "I realized that Zhou must have...." or even "From my days as a navigator, I knew that...more There are books that break new ground with bombshell research and there are books that spellbind us with the skill of their deception. This book is the latter.
Menzies takes a tremendous dump on the sensibilities of his readers, bombarding us with outrageous claims backed up with erroneous facts and arrogant speculation. A typical "fact" presented by Menzies is introduced with "By this point I was sure..." or "I realized that Zhou must have...." or even "From my days as a navigator, I knew that ...." Then Menzies will absurdly postulate about what the Treasure Fleet MUST have been doing in uncharted territory, with no trace of written or oral record, halfway across the globe nearly 600 years ago. He claims he knows the exact date that the the Fleet passed certain islands in the Caribbean due to their haphazard presence and occurrence on later European charts (the absence of the moon excuses when these oddly shaped islands are misrepresented or missed on the charts). Then he will wax appreciatively about how precise Chinese navigators and cartographers were, attributing stone structures (Menzies' alleged observation decks) all around the globe to Chinese astronomical prowess and their desire to properly construct latitude and longitude by measuring eclipses all across the globe. Of course, the Chinese never bothered to go back to these places to collect the results. Nor did they return to the dozens of colonies they set up everywhere from South America to Massachusetts to Gympie, Australia. Nor did they return to collect the fruits of the mines they set up all over the world. Menzies will say that this is because of the isolationist policy China soon after adopted. But if you really think about, and if you read later editions' postscripts and visit his website - you will soon realize that he is trying to collect all of the unaccountables and unexplainables of history and wrap them up in a flimsy and manipulative description of a massive journey and colonization campaign that most likely never even happened. This book is the nadir of pop history, and, sadly, it shows how dedicated propagandists have been stretching history to their own means for centuries - mix your audience's curiosity and ignorance with a fantastical proposition and then support it with smart and thorough sounding explanations based on baseless facts, and then sit back and let their imagination take hold.

It may be added that the HMS Rorqual, the submarine that Menzies briefly commanded, experienced its only collision under his steerage. So much for his great navigational deductions.(less)

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Oct 30, 2007 Rob rated it 4 of 5 stars Recommends it for: anyone

Shelves: history

So much for all that crap they taught us in school about who discovered America! The Chinese did it first. All the European explorers were following charts that the Chinese had created in the early 1420s. Its fascinating to see how the revelation of what "really" happened developes for the author as he travels all over the world finding evidence in shipwrecks, artifacts and structures, plants and animals, languages and customs, and genetic markers in the indigenous peoples of Africa, the New Wor...more

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Aug 29, 2007 Joe rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: wonderfultalesofscienceandoradventu

Hoo boy, what can I say. This book is heavily mired in controversy, and here's why. First, it makes an extraordinary claim: that Chinese explorers in their 1421-23 exploration didn't just map the Indian Ocean, as generally accepted, but also visited West Africa, both coasts of South America, the Caribbean, and even left colonies in New England and Greenland. Second, since much of this hasn't been sufficiently researched, it doesn't have the goods to back a lot of it up. All it has is an extremel...more Hoo boy, what can I say. This book is heavily mired in controversy, and here's why. First, it makes an extraordinary claim: that Chinese explorers in their 1421-23 exploration didn't just map the Indian Ocean, as generally accepted, but also visited West Africa, both coasts of South America, the Caribbean, and even left colonies in New England and Greenland. Second, since much of this hasn't been sufficiently researched, it doesn't have the goods to back a lot of it up. All it has is an extremely interesting hodge-podge of facts, figures, intriguing maps, unexplored wrecks and spotty journal entries (most of the accounts of the voyage were destroyed when the explorers returned home to find that the Empire had turned inwards).

It reads like an historical mystery novel, which is sort of what it is. For something that may be a completely fake history, it's sure entertaining. It certainly has some questions that "the standard model" does not answer; incredibly accurate maps that appear to predate the discovery of their contents by people who knew how to make maps; sunken wrecks where and when there shouldn't be; evidence of Chinese-Mayan trade and cultural exchange; anecdotal accounts of a Chinese colony in Greenland; etc. Menzies, being an ex-sailor himself, knows a lot about sailing and brings the voyage to life, an impressive feat given that we know virtually nothing about anyone who was on it. He just doesn't succeed in bringing it to reality. Too little is known, much rests on conjecture and indeed many of Menzies' theories have been debunked since it was written. My own environmental studies professor at Grinnell College pretty much discredited the whole Caribbean argument. Several other pieces of evidence have been shot down as well, from all I've read, and many of the maps and wrecks are not what they seem. Some, like an astounding map of Greenland that turned up in the back of someone's car, may even be forgeries.

But that, I think, is the point. This book is not designed to prove that this voyage really did all that he thinks it did. It is a theory. There is a lot of scattered evidence for the theory, and it needs to be investigated, because if it were true it would be stunning. The book is basically an opening salvo in an argument that is complex enough that it will likely take years to sort out. (A lot of ships have be dug up from the ocean floor, for starters.) Most or all of that argument may prove to be bunk, but that's the nature of history.

Point is, read this for fun, read for curiosity, but read with a skeptical eye, is all.(less)

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Aug 23, 2007 Brian rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: A History Buff looking for an intriguing story

First off, I will start off by saying that I do NOT believe the Chinese beat the Europeans to the New World. I just think the evidence just is not compelling enough.

However that doesn't mean that they could NOT have. They certainly had the navy, the navigational skills (no worse than the Europeans), and the funding and ingenuity to accomplish it. And that is precisely what this book seeks to theorize. Of course there is not any historian that wants to make any money "theorizing" unless you are...more

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Jul 16, 2007 John rated it 2 of 5 stars

Ok, so this was really interesting and he had a pretty good basic thesis. In fact, I could totally buy the most important 10% of his theory. Basically, no one disputes that the Chinese had this enormous fleet that set sail in 1421 and went across the Indian Ocean to the east coast of Africa. They were sent on a mission to trade with different countries and basically tell everyone how great China was.
The part of his theory I can buy is that the Chinese didn't stop at East Africa. They sailed aro...more

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Apr 29, 2008 Jeff rated it 4 of 5 stars Recommends it for: Abbie, and any history or China buffs.

Recommended to Jeff by: David, my stepfather.

Shelves: non-fiction

I am convinced. There is a raging debate over this book. The problem lies in the fact that the author is not a traditional historian--he's just a sailor who had a theory about what a few famous Chinese admirals did over a period of a couple of undocumented years. His theory is that they visited every continent on Earth except Europe, and he amasses a great deal of circumstantial evidence to support it. Not the least convincing, and what a good deal of the book focuses on, are the maps that many...more

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Jun 26, 2007 Michael rated it 2 of 5 stars Recommends it for: knee-jerk European Culture-haters

While this book presents itself as a revelation, it lacks citations or footnotes or much evidence for that matter to support such wild claims. I am not some jaded professor who believes in the current historical status quo, but to make such claims without good scholarly follow-through just begs for it to be debunked. Don't get me wrong, it was an entertaining read, which is why it got 2 stars and not one. But ultimately it is a futile book. The reason History is a social science is partly becaus...more While this book presents itself as a revelation, it lacks citations or footnotes or much evidence for that matter to support such wild claims. I am not some jaded professor who believes in the current historical status quo, but to make such claims without good scholarly follow-through just begs for it to be debunked. Don't get me wrong, it was an entertaining read, which is why it got 2 stars and not one. But ultimately it is a futile book. The reason History is a social science is partly because new evidence and information is peer-reviewed. If the evidence supports further research or re-evaluates long-held historical notions, then it is absolutely necessary to do so. I don't think there is such a pro-Western or anti-Chinese conspiracy among modern historians that the "terrible truth" in this book would be willfully ignored.

As there are many examples of historical revisions that were necessary because of new evidence or racism and bigotry in the original historical perspective, I can only guess that Gavin Menzies had reason to believe that his "evidence" wasn't strong enough. In addition, he conflates history for which there is strong evidence with unsupported theories. For example, there is plenty of written and physical evidence that the Chinese were trading and sailing to the East African coast. But there is no substantiated evidence that they rounded the Cape of Good Hope. There is also evidence that the Chinese were well aware of many land masses throughout the South Pacific, but no evidence to support them landing and colonizing Australia or New Zealand. Menzies also claims DNA evidence of Chinese intermixing with aboriginal populations around the world. We all know that DNA evidence, while not conclusive, would certainly be very strong proof. So why isn't this data cited?

It is well-established that the most powerful agent of change when the New World came into contact with the Old World was disease. Since there is evidence of Sino-European contact during the Roman period, and both populations had enough density to be cauldrons for the same diseases, why didn't supposed Chinese contact with Native Americans or Australian Aboriginals result in devastating plagues? This to me is Menzies' largest theoretical hole, large enough to sail a treasure ship through.

On a much smaller note, the images that are in the book as well as some of Menzies' physical evidence are suspiciously inexact. Why not display images of the plinths with Chinese characters from Australia and West Africa and the Cape Verde Islands? Why not show the Mao Tsu statue "found" in Australia or the Gympie Pyramid? I suspect these are not shown because of the utter dearth of testable data or clear evidence supporting his theories. It is unfortunate that his claims are presented so sloppily and amateurishly that they invite such damning criticism.

Finally, I acknowledge the possibility of Menzies' claims. It is well-known that History of European Contact with the New World has long been a racist and exclusionary account of the clash of civilizations. Only recently (in the last 15 years) have there been serious attempts to include the perspectives of women, natives and common Europeans. If concrete evidence of Chinese contact with the rest of the world is discovered, then History should indeed be revised. But until then I will shelve this theory next to the Lost Continent of Muu and Mayan Trips to the Moon.(less)

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Mar 22, 2008 Bunga Mawar rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: stated-as-nonfiction, it-s-mine

I bought this book December 2006 on Indonesia Book Fair. The real prize was IDR75000, but I got it for only IDR49000 (still one of expensive books I've ever bought).

The book's content amazed me. It's a kind of re-writing world history that attempted to tell us that Magellan, Colombus and other Western discoverers were only followers of a path built by Chinese sailors under the command of Zheng-He (or Cheng-Ho, his popular name in Indonesia) on Emperor Zhu-Di era.

I like Menzies' style in writing....more

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Mar 13, 2008 Darrell rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: reviewed

In 1421: The Year China Discovered America, Gavin Menzies presents evidence that China not only discovered North and South America before Columbus was born, but also rounded the Cape of Good Hope, explored the North and South Poles, discovered Australia, and circumnavigated the world, visiting every continent except Europe.

The reason this information isn't widely known is because China became xenophobic after these great voyages and all records of the voyages were destroyed. However, enough evid...more In 1421: The Year China Discovered America, Gavin Menzies presents evidence that China not only discovered North and South America before Columbus was born, but also rounded the Cape of Good Hope, explored the North and South Poles, discovered Australia, and circumnavigated the world, visiting every continent except Europe.

The reason this information isn't widely known is because China became xenophobic after these great voyages and all records of the voyages were destroyed. However, enough evidence of these voyages remains to provide compelling proof.

Menzies focuses on maps of the world made before the European explores were born and points to journals showing that Columbus, Magellan, Cook, and others had maps of the areas they were "discovering" before they ever set sail.

Magellan knew where the Straight of Magellan was by using a map. Cook found Australia the same way. Columbus didn't discover America on accident; he simply followed the map he brought with him. In fact, when Columbus landed on Puerto Rico, he found an earlier Portuguese voyage had already settled there ahead of him. (The Portuguese landed in Puerto Rico a short ten years after the Chinese.) Columbus wasn't even the first non-Scandinavian European to visit America! Also, Columbus himself admits that the Chinese had been to America before him.

Where did these maps come from? Menzies shows that Europeans who visited India came into contact with the Chinese and brought maps back to Europe. Portugal kept the maps a secret from the rest of Europe to give them an advantage in the spice trade. However, Columbus and his brother copied the maps, altered them to make it look like it was easier to reach the Spice Islands by going west rather than east and tricked Spain into financing a voyage to the Americas.

Menzies also presents a mountain of evidence of Chinese explorations around the world including Chinese stone markers and observation pyramids, ancient Chinese shipwrecks, including one found in San Francisco Bay, Chinese artifacts found around the world, Asian plants and animals introduced to the Americas, American plants and animals brought back to China, legends and cave drawings of indigenous peoples, and Native Americans with Chinese DNA who speak languages similar to Chinese.

In addition to presenting compelling evidence, Menzies also provides interesting historical tidbits. For example, the Chinese had trained otters who herded fish into nets. He provides fascinating descriptions of medieval China, which made me wish the grade school history classes I took didn't focus solely on Europe and European America.

The only problem I had with the book is that it gets repetitious towards the end, especially the epilogue that I found unnecessary since it just restates evidence from earlier in the book. Strangely, he includes an appendix explaining how the Chinese measured longitude, which is almost exactly the same word for word as his description of how the Chinese measured longitude found in Chapter 15, making it completely extraneous. Except for this one shortcoming, the book is a fantastic read and gives us indisputable proof that our history books need to be rewritten.(less)

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Apr 06, 2009 Caroline rated it 3 of 5 stars

I finally finished this book. For some reason, when I read non-fiction, I fall asleep, no matter how interesting the subject matter. So this is a long time coming.
Basically, the book is about how towards the end of China's expansive age, they sent out a gianormous fleet of huge ships to collect tribute from all the nations of the earth in a good Buddhist way. And as a bonus, they were to chart the world and update all their scientific data (or whatever the 15th century Chinese terminology for it...more I finally finished this book. For some reason, when I read non-fiction, I fall asleep, no matter how interesting the subject matter. So this is a long time coming.
Basically, the book is about how towards the end of China's expansive age, they sent out a gianormous fleet of huge ships to collect tribute from all the nations of the earth in a good Buddhist way. And as a bonus, they were to chart the world and update all their scientific data (or whatever the 15th century Chinese terminology for it was). And then, because they did this, the charts spread to Europe and gave them the boost they needed to go exploring and try to catch up to Chinese navigational superiority. It did help that while this big fleet was gone, the Chinese government turned upside down and they decided they didn't want to deal with the outside world anymore, so they burned all their evidence that these voyages ever happened.
When I picked up this book, I was all ready to accept every word. OF COURSE the Chinese discovered the world first. Now that I've finished it, I find myself pretty skeptical. Of this author's version of things at least. How do people really know which plants and animals originated where? Were they there? Is carbon dating really all that accurate? If we are trusting DNA and carbon records, are we following it in the right directions? (OK, those are mostly my own stumbling blocks.)
How come the Chinese didn't already know about America and have their own rudimentary maps, the same way that the Europeans did? (In the end he hints that they might have...part of the problem is that they got rid of their own records to be isolationists.)
Shouldn't they have sent people directly across the Pacific instead of the long way 'round? (Again, he says prevailing winds and currents make the long way a little easier. Plus they were apparently dropping off people in India. But still, nobody thought of this option?)
On a similar note, why was there no exploration of the eastern side of Central America? Shouldn't one of the priorities have been to create that direct route--especially with a fleet so large? No maps ever show farther than the Caribbean Islands.
If one of the points of the exercise was to take detailed notes and charts, why weren't the people who stayed in the places they landed at (shipwrecked usually) still interested in keeping records? They had promises that they would be rescued, and since they didn't know the political climate at home, they should have assumed any records from actually living in the land would be as valuable or more to their homeland. So why has no one found these kinds of records?
Anyway. Those are some of my concerns. Mostly, I didn't like the parts where he puts his conjecture forward as though this is the only way it could have possibly happened. I did like when he tied it all back to the Europeans though--the way they got ahold of the charts and began to use them for themselves.
I believe that people were exploring the oceans and the world before the Europeans became the driving force behind things. I don't think that means we should think less of the European explorers (give Columbus his holiday back!). I would most certainly not be here or the same without them. Especially since the European influence has been stronger, even if it was not as nice as the Chinese who "colonized" America first.
(less)

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Jun 28, 2008 Christopher rated it 1 of 5 stars

From time to time, this reviewer comes across a publication so crackpot that I hardly know where to start in reviewing it here. I'm happy to see that Gavin Menzies' thesis in 1421: The Year China Discovered America, that a Chinese fleet launched in 1421, embarked on a tour around the world, discovering all major points before Europeans and leaving artifacts, has already been generally debunked by numerous sources. Perhaps the most substantial is Robert Finlay's review "How Not to (Re)Write World...more From time to time, this reviewer comes across a publication so crackpot that I hardly know where to start in reviewing it here. I'm happy to see that Gavin Menzies' thesis in 1421: The Year China Discovered America, that a Chinese fleet launched in 1421, embarked on a tour around the world, discovering all major points before Europeans and leaving artifacts, has already been generally debunked by numerous sources. Perhaps the most substantial is Robert Finlay's review "How Not to (Re)Write World History: Gavin Menzies and the Chinese Discovery of America" in the Journal of World History, June 2004, where Finlay shows that there are no "lost years" in Ming dynasty sailing, and so Menzies' book is completely without foundation. My fellow reviewers here have also offered some important critiques. I would like to offer a perspective from my own individual profession, linguistics. Menzies writes, for example:

"Linguistics provide further evidence. The people of the Eten and Monsefu villages in the Lambayeque province of Peru can understand Chinese but not each otherâ€™s patois, despite living only three miles apart. Stephen Powers, a nineteenth-century inspector employed by the government of California to survey the native population, found linguistic evidence of a Chinese-speaking colony in the state."

The first assertion, on the Peruvian village, is not sourced at all and is either the personal fancy of the author or some minor crank idea. The second, however, is cited to an 19th-century bit of scholarship evidentally done without appropriate field methods. He goes on to claim that Chinese sailors shipwrecked on the East Coast of the United States would have been able to communicate with locals, as these would have included Chinese who had walked over the Bering Strait. Chinese walk across to Alaska and across all North America, but end up speaking Middle Chinese, and yet leave no trace of this dialect on neighbouring Native American languages? Risible fantasy. There's even an assertion that Navajo elders understand Chinese conversation, and an assertion that the Peruvian village name Chanchan must be Chinese because it sounds (at least to him) like "Canton". Perhaps the silliest Peruvian connection is between Chinese "qipu" and Quechua "quipu"; Menzies seemingly doesn't understand that "q" represents a completely different sound in each language. So, I hope that the reader with some training in linguistics can see what kind of arguments are used in the book, and beware accordingly.

If I may be permitted one final indulgence, I should like to protest Menzies' weird view of Chinese culture. He blasts European explorers for committing genocide, claiming that continued Chinese expansion would have led instead to a world of peace and Confucian harmony. This is the naive romantic view of the Orient held by a child flipping through National Geographic. A man of Menzies' age and experience should have realized that all civilizations have it within them to commit do in indigenous peoples--the marginalization of Tibetan and Uighur language and culture and the disappearance already of a distinct Manchu people stand as proof that the Chinese are no exception.(less)

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$Patrick\$

May 15, 2008 Patrick\ rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: science, world-history

A bit hard to figure where to place this book. Is it historical or is it historical interpretation or misinterpretation? Did Bao, Wang, Qing and Man split off from the Cape Verde Islands with Wen brining the Cherokee Rose plant to N. America, along with some male DNA? That China explored intentionally or unintentionally the West Coast of the continent has more physical eveidence of support. That the entire coastal areas of the continents, less Europe and Antarctica - but including Greenland - we...more

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Jul 01, 2008 Jini rated it 1 of 5 stars

I suppose I should feel bad that I gave up on this book, but I don't. It seemed like an interesting concept: China sent out huge ships to bring back treasure and knowledge, and just happened to find America 70 years before Christopher Columbus. Too bad there's so much evidence pointing against this being the case. I was about two chapters in when I really started to think about the logic of this and decided to do a little research. Turns out there are very few people that agree with this book. M...more

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Nov 07, 2010 Kati rated it 3 of 5 stars

Fascinating.

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Mar 09, 2009 Terry Earley rated it 3 of 5 stars

A couple of years ago, I read Gavin Menzies' book 1421: The Year China Discovered America and was surprised about the influence that Chinese mapping and navigational technology had on European exploration. See the book's website for more detail (and shameless promotion).
http://www.1421.tv/

Note that the title has changed to "The Year that China Discovered the World"

This past weekend, I finished his followup book 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissan...more

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Feb 28, 2009 Courtney rated it 3 of 5 stars

In 1421, in the early days of the Ming Dynasty, the largest fleets the world had ever seen set fourth to chart the world. In "1421: The Year China Discovered America," Gavin Menzies argues that these giant treasure ships charted Australia, Africa and the Americas, spread agriculture and culture, and returned with maps that Europe used to guide its own explorations of the world.

Menzies knows how to construct a thesis and methodically build his case, and for this I give him a lot of credit. Popula...more In 1421, in the early days of the Ming Dynasty, the largest fleets the world had ever seen set fourth to chart the world. In "1421: The Year China Discovered America," Gavin Menzies argues that these giant treasure ships charted Australia, Africa and the Americas, spread agriculture and culture, and returned with maps that Europe used to guide its own explorations of the world.

Menzies knows how to construct a thesis and methodically build his case, and for this I give him a lot of credit. Popular nonfiction books too often choose a noun or a verb, and then build chapters based on loose anecdotes with no central idea, let alone a defended argument. Unfortunately, Menzies goes too far in the defense of his ideas. He dismisses or ignores valid critiques of the evidence, dives into rampant speculation, and misunderstands basic scientific concepts.

At the end of his book, for example, Menzies makes an argument that Chinese explorers must have visited New Zealand based on claims that even this English major sees as unscientific. Maori women's mitochondrial DNA suggests one heritage, and men's Y chromosomes suggest another. Perhaps 500 years ago a Chinese ship, one with coed voyagers, the ship's
men were massacred and women were integrated with the native New Zealand people, Menzies suggests. Interesting theory, but these two methods of tracking heritage - mitochondria and Y chromosomes - are far from mutually exclusive, and hardly prove that all men and all women have two separate and distinct ancestries.

Similar claims about the spread of plant life around the world, and about the use of dyes and pottery by different cultures, suggest that Menzies was eager to latch on to any tidbit that would bolster his thesis, and did spent little time trying to understand the concepts underlying the claims he made.

I finished the book convinced that China's early 15th Century fleets were great, and deserve to be celebrated. It's even possible, I think, that the Middle Kingdom charted the globe. This is not the book to prove it, but despite its weaknesses "1421" is an enjoyable ride.(less)

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Feb 17, 2009 Liz rated it 2 of 5 stars

Shelves: reviewed

In this book, the author expounds upon his theory that around the year 1421, the Chinese launched a huge fleet of ships which circled the globe. He postulates that they visited nearly every continent, including North America (thus the title), charting maps, making scientific observations, trading with the natives, and depositing bits and pieces of their own culture wherever they went. It was an unprecedented feat of exploration, and one that surely would have gone down in history books, had outs...more

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Dec 20, 2008 Mark rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: non-fiction

This non-fiction book about Chinese voyages of exploration in the 15th Century has caused quite a stir in the academic world. He contends that the Chinese discovered most of the world 70 years before Columbus even sailed and that all the great European explorers sailed, not into the unknown, but with maps based on the Chinese fleet's discoveries. He presents a mass of information as proof of his theory and there is no doubt in my mind that much of his claims are true. My largest criticism of his...more

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Mar 24, 2013 Shane rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: history

This book was interesting and certainly thought-provoking, although certainly dragged in parts.
Menzies claim is that a massive Chinese fleet (or, more accurately, fleets) circumnavigated the globe from 1421-3 and "discovered" many lands before the Europeans, most notably North and South America. This theory is definitely interesting, although I did find several of the claims a bit much, such as the fact that the Chinese established permanent colonies in California, the Yucatan, Amazon, and New E...more

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Oct 25, 2012 Bea rated it 2 of 5 stars

Shelves: non-fiction

I hesitated to put this on my non-fiction shelf...

The idea is interesting, and would be very cool if it were true. I also don't see why the Chinese couldn't have traveled more of the world with their advanced technologies.

But this book fails the bullshit test. Time after time so called evidence has no citations. Wild ideas are thrown about as the only plausible explanations. Brief internet searches turn up zero for things he states are definitively true (such as DNA evidence that Native America...more

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Aug 14, 2012 Rebecca rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: history

This is a completely enthralling book dedicated to a really ballsy thesis--that the treasure fleets of the Ming Dynasty charted most of the world, including North and South America as well as Siberia and Antarctica, in 1421. According to Menzies, European explorers including Columbus, Magellan, and Cook were working off of already existing charts that had been essentially stolen from the Chinese when they made their own voyages of exploration.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence presented...more This is a completely enthralling book dedicated to a really ballsy thesis--that the treasure fleets of the Ming Dynasty charted most of the world, including North and South America as well as Siberia and Antarctica, in 1421. According to Menzies, European explorers including Columbus, Magellan, and Cook were working off of already existing charts that had been essentially stolen from the Chinese when they made their own voyages of exploration.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence presented--everything from ancient maps to European ship logs to shipwrecks to lingual analysis to plant migrations to DNA. Some of the declarations are fairly easy to believe, such as the notion that the Chinese were well aware of the location of Australia. Others seem awfully far-fetched, like the declaration that Chinese sailors built the Bimini Road to repair reef-savaged junks.

Taken as a whole and in isolation, this is an incredibly compelling and fascinating argument. Menzies claims the support of an armada of Chinese scholars--this isn't merely one guy out on a mission of his own. And he has plausible-sounding explanations for most possible objections.

Is it true? I'll admit I have no idea. A part of me wants it to be--it's just such a cool idea. But I'll freely admit I don't have nearly the background required to evaluate this. There are dozens of websites that seem devoted to proving him wrong--although there are also dozens of websites devoted to proving the moon landing wrong, too, so that doesn't necessarily mean much. I'd be very much interested in reading a rebuttal by a group of qualified historians. But again, my own lack of knowledge hampers me here--I don't actually know who is considered a respected authority, who is a crank, and who is just inflexible and has an axe to grind. It's certain that there's a lot of "established" history that we're aware is not actually true. But at the same time, this just seems too good to be true. And there's definitely a bunch of places where I think he's making unjustified leaps of logic.

But it certainly is interesting. (less)

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Jul 22, 2012 Asiasuperloop rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: 21st-century

Gavin Menzies charts the medieval past of an exploratory China that has been lost to memory and history. The disclosures, on their face and at first blush, are thrilling: large Chinese junks found in the dead and dried up estuaries of California; ceramic votive artifacts in the hinterlands of Australia; and, the botanical evidence of the exploratory medieval Chinese who served as the medium for the spread of Southeast Asian horticultural varietals across the breadth of the planet.

And all of this...more

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Jul 22, 2012 Green rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: 21st-century

Gavin Menzies charts the medieval past of an exploratory China that has been lost to memory and history. The disclosures, on their face and at first blush, are thrilling: large Chinese junks found in the dead and dried up estuaries of California; ceramic votive artifacts in the hinterlands of Australia; and, the botanical evidence of the exploratory medieval Chinese who served as the medium for the spread of Southeast Asian horticultural varietals across the breadth of the planet.

And all of this...more

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Jul 15, 2012 Kathleen rated it 4 of 5 stars

another interesting story - chosen by Diana in my book group, and also left at my house by a tenant. kismet.

"On March 8, 1421, the largest fleet the world had ever seen set sail from China. Its mission was "to proceed all the way to the ends of the earth to collect tribute from the barbarians beyond the seas" and unite the whole world in Confucian harmony.

When it returned in October 1423, the emperor had fallen, leaving China in political and economic chaos. The great ships were left to rot at t...more

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Aug 09, 2011 Garrick Underhill marked it as to-read

Confession: I haven't finished this book. But after picking it up and plopping down in those comfy chairs at Barnes and Noble, I'm around a quarter-way done.

Question: If China really did discover the New World (and just about anywhere else they could float to), what does it matter?

The Chinese descendant or other "intrigued amateur-historian" answers: It debunks all history textbooks and changes the way we look at exploration! This book finally gives the East the respect it deserves!

I'm not den...more

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Aug 09, 2011 Matthew added it

This book opened a window into a critical historical juncture: the century preceding the explosion of European exploration, lead by the Portuguese.

These earliest European explorers used top secret maps, procured by a westerner and recent re-convert away from Islam, who accompanied the Chinese of the early Ming Dynasty on their global trade missions, not only to India and east Africa, but into various new stops in South and North America, initiating trade with no less than the Mayan Empire, itsel...more

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Dec 11, 2010 Fernando Henrique rated it 2 of 5 stars

Eu tenho de admitir que, esse livro me surpreendeu.
Quando o peguei para ler, o fiz com toda a ressalva possível, pois já sabia que ele traria idéias muito perturbadoras. E de fato ele traz. Contudo, para um leigo, pode realmente parecer tudo verdade, embora não seja.
Que os chineses tinham capacidade de fazer tudo o que Menzies alega, não há dúvidas. Durante milênios não houve na Terra civilização comparável a Chinesa. E talvez essa civilização seja de fato a mais longeva e bem sucedida de toda a...more Eu tenho de admitir que, esse livro me surpreendeu.
Quando o peguei para ler, o fiz com toda a ressalva possível, pois já sabia que ele traria idéias muito perturbadoras. E de fato ele traz. Contudo, para um leigo, pode realmente parecer tudo verdade, embora não seja.
Que os chineses tinham capacidade de fazer tudo o que Menzies alega, não há dúvidas. Durante milênios não houve na Terra civilização comparável a Chinesa. E talvez essa civilização seja de fato a mais longeva e bem sucedida de toda a humanidade. Contudo, o que Menzies quer que acreditemos é que os navegadores chineses são os verdadeiros heróis da integração humana pelo globo. Não são.
Em diversos pontos do livro Menzies nos apresenta especulações como sendo fatos. Intuições como sendo verdades. O caso das galinhas na América do Sul ou do processo de fabricação de laca no México. Menzies afirma que esses indícios só poderiam ser provas de que Chineses estiveram na América e tiveram contato com os nativos. Contudo, tecnicas e tecnologias para fabricação de manufaturados não são exclusivamente fruto de um único centro produtor. Piramides são construídas em todas as partes do mundo e elas não se espalharam todas de um único lugar. A idéia surgiu em diferentes pontos, em diferentes épocas e em lugares tão distantes quanto a Bolívia e as Filipinas. O caso das galinhas é ainda mais emblemático. Para justificar a sua afirmação, Menzies utiliza o som que o galo asiático produz e o contrapõe ao galo europeu. E afirma o absurdo de que se algum desavisado caminhasse por ruas no Peru não saberia distinguir esse país da China?
A cartografia de fato é uma incógnita. As cartas nauticas que ele apresenta de fato são indícios pra lá de importantes. Contudo, é de se estranhar que os Chineses simplesmente tenham ignorado a Europa. Se eles estavam atrás de fazer negócios e submeter povos "inferiores" a tributários da grande China, simplesmente ignorar a Europa Cristã seria uma incongruência. Especialmente tendo um europeu a bordo, que serviria de intérprete para fazer negócios.
Ouvi dizer sobre outro livro dele 1434 em que supostamente afirma que os Chineses foram a europa. Curioso que só agora, 576 anos depois alguém tenha encontrado alguma prova disso.
O livro traz grandes debates, mas não pode simplesmente ser aceito como verdade absoluta.(less)

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Oct 17, 2010 Nick rated it 2 of 5 stars

Gavin Menzies tries too hard and goes too far, and so what starts out as an interesting and persuasive thesis ends up becoming impossible. His idea is that a huge fleet of Chinese ships sailed around the world and basically colonized it -- or at least left plants, animals and DNA behind -- some 70 years before Columbus. The problem is that the further Menzies gets from China the less persuasive the evidence is and the harder he tries to persuade us with flimsy evidence. Animals that look sort of...more

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Jul 26, 2010 Adam rated it 1 of 5 stars

I have to say that I enjoyed reading this book, if only because it made me so angry at the gross inaccuracies and completely imaginary scenarios that the author made up. He claims to have information from anthropology, archaeology, geology, geography, history, etc, but what he really has exists only in his own mind. Read on, intrepid reader, and be amazed as the author sidesteps issues which threatens his ideas, or completely ignores them!

There is absolutely no traceable path for his research,...more

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title link	preview: 1421: The Year China Discovered America
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1421: The Year China Discovered America

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