Velvet Elvis

Feb 09, 2008

Josh & Tiffany rated it

· review of another edition

Shelves: spirituality, josh, year2

1) I really like Bell's enthusiasm and passion for helping people break out of a religious system that many times can be boring and basically anything but alive. Sometimes I think that I myself am far too intertwined with this system which, although good in many ways, is still man-made.

2) Bell's call to "test it. Probe it." is good advice. I have the awful tendency to read books, accepting most everything that I read as long as I trust the author or person who recommend...more1) I really like Bell's enthusiasm and passion for helping people break out of a religious system that many times can be boring and basically anything but alive. Sometimes I think that I myself am far too intertwined with this system which, although good in many ways, is still man-made.

2) Bell's call to "test it. Probe it." is good advice. I have the awful tendency to read books, accepting most everything that I read as long as I trust the author or person who recommended the book to me.

3) I think that the way we respond to testing and probing is what can separate believers from non-believers, but unfortunately it doesn't. As you'll see below, there are some very big disagreements I have with Bell, but some of the things I've seen written and done in protest of his teachings is unbelievable. Protesting outside Bell's fellowship telling people they're going to hades isn't much of a disagreement, it borders on hatred.

4) All that being said, I have some very significant problems with some of Bell's theology. The first is his use of the trampoline analogy. Now obviously no analogy can be perfect, but the statement that all tenets of faith outside of Jesus are springs, and therefore we must be willing to allow them to flex, is very unBiblical. Now I agree with him regarding the man who said that if you don't believe in a 24-hour day creation, you don't believe in the cross. If by springs he means that we need to be open to various interpretation, I am all for that. It is when he wants my foundation to flex that I have a problem. Speaking of the virgin birth he says, "What if that spring was seriously questioned? Could a person still keep jumping?" My personal answer is that if I found that the virgin birth was untrue, the gospel writers knowingly putting a myth into their writings and thus compromising the inspiration of the Word, yes I would have some serious questions. But my personal answer doesn't carry as much weight as Paul's in regard to the resurrection saying, "...if [the Son] is not risen...then your faith is also vain." (I Cor 15:14). That doesn't sounds like a spring to me. I believe there are certain things which are bricks, or if I may add to Bell's analogy, maybe the stands on which the trampoline is raised. You take that away and you'll find that jumping on the trampoline is no different than jumping on the regular ground.

5) There was something that bothered me all through the first half of the book which I couldn't put my finger on until he basically wrote it out. Although I admire Bell's passion, I'm wary of his focus. Although he's not fully a "saved by works" preacher, he gets far too close in my mind by not emphasizing the power of the cross. Like I said, I couldn't put my finger on it until he got to his theory about Peter walking on water. That just blew my mind. Bell states, "Who does Peter lose faith in? Not Jesus; Jesus is doing fine. Peter loses faith in himself." The idea that the Son willingly gave up His life so that people like me could realize how great I already am and all of the things I am capable of borders on blasphemy. In response to that I want to ask Bell what happened when Peter got back into the boat. Did he apologize for not meeting his potential? Did he promise that next time he would be more confident in himself? Of course not. He worships the Son. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". I think those two words were missing in too much of Bell's ideology.

6) Bell far too often portrays the Word as full of metaphors. Yes, we desperately need to find the relevance for today, to apply it to our lives. I agree that this might be why so much of our "system" seems dead. However, what gives me hope in the life to come is not a personal, very subjective "...experience of [the Son] that transcends place and time" as Bell says, but rather the fact that the Son died and rose again on my behalf. I think the writers themselves make it clear that their purpose wasn't to provide metaphors, but to give us the story of our existence. Luke says, " Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught" (Lk 1:3-4).

To conclude my thoughts, I think that Bell is very well-intentioned and should serve as a wake-up call for many people, including myself, to see how much of what I consider to be my faith is in actuality just my system or culture. While I think that I should stand against what I believe to be foundational errors in Bell's theology, I think that the best reaction I or any person can have to objections is to expend my energy not on combative arguments but on being just as passionate for what I hold to be true. I hold that in Him, and not of myself or anything that I can do, grace is given as a gift through the sacrifice of the Son for our justification - but more importantly for His glory.(less)

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Aug 27, 2007

Phil Ward rated it

Recommends it for: people with the ability to think clearly

Shelves: emergentliterature

I think this book has tremendously helpful applications. There are so many challenges that are expressed through the genuine reflection of the current state of Christianity. The challenge to think deeply and to ask questions about what Christianity is and what it means. These are helpful bits of advice. There are great nuggets of wisdom that challenge people to read the Bible with the understanding that the events themselves really did happen. They are real stories about real people in real plac...moreI think this book has tremendously helpful applications. There are so many challenges that are expressed through the genuine reflection of the current state of Christianity. The challenge to think deeply and to ask questions about what Christianity is and what it means. These are helpful bits of advice. There are great nuggets of wisdom that challenge people to read the Bible with the understanding that the events themselves really did happen. They are real stories about real people in real places. Moreover, the challenge to live authentically is prevalent within the writing of Rob Bell. One can truly appreciate his candid way of expressing his ideas and concerns.

The danger lies from the consistent use of argumentation that Christianity must let go of Doctrine and the need to fight for Orthodox doctrine and instead the fight should be to love Jesus and to love others as Jesus loved others. This on the surface sounds great. But if we are to implement the very things that Rob Bell writes about, such as asking questions, then we find ourselves in a place where we are forming ideas about God, these are often called doctrines. For example Bell says that we ought not fight for correct doctrine but instead we ought to live like Jesus lived, authentically and passionately obeying God's will in serving and loving others. Here are the questions: who was Jesus? what was Jesus like? who did Jesus think he was? who did his disciples think he is? was he morally correct? why should one follow this guy Jesus? By answering these questions we begin to formulate a belief and an understanding about who Jesus is. This is called Christology. The need to define who Jesus was in the New Testament is a doctrine with significant importance because it alone can differentiate correct and incorrect ideas of Jesus of the New Testament. Mormons believe in the Jesus of the New Testament and so do the Evangelicals. Who is right? Can both be right? No, because that is a logical fallacy. Then which is right? Only a set of beliefs about Jesus, a doctrine of Jesus, can sufficiently answer that question. Doctrine is important, but it is not the end, it is the means; the means to the end of thinking and worshiping God correctly and avoiding intellectual idolatry.(less)

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Sep 27, 2007

Genevieve Heinrich rated it

Recommends it for: anyone disillusioned w/ Christianity; anyone with an interest in faith in the modern world

Shelves: favorites

Recently, I've been doing a lot of writing concerning my own beliefs and faith practices. It tends to come up occasionally amongst my group of friends, as I'm one of only a few (if any?) practicing Christians, and I tend to think a lot about faith issues generally because my church tends to be very thought-provoking and inspiring.

About a month ago, I emailed one of my writings to my pastor, almost half-expecting him to call me a nutter and suggest I not return. Instead, he said "...moreRecently, I've been doing a lot of writing concerning my own beliefs and faith practices. It tends to come up occasionally amongst my group of friends, as I'm one of only a few (if any?) practicing Christians, and I tend to think a lot about faith issues generally because my church tends to be very thought-provoking and inspiring.

About a month ago, I emailed one of my writings to my pastor, almost half-expecting him to call me a nutter and suggest I not return. Instead, he said "Read this book, I think you'll love it!"

He was right!

Sometimes, especially living in the conservative midwest, I become convinced that my views on the state of modern Christianity and on faith and belief in general are "out there," "wacky," or downright sacreligious. It's very nice to be reassured that, all of a sudden, I appear to be part of a "movement." There really are people out there reading their Bibles and NOT falling into the psycho-fundie trap! There really are people out there who think that Jesus' message and mission are a damn sight more important than traditions that end up driving more people away from God than drawing them in. There really are other folks who realize that the bottom line isn't how many rules you follow correctly, but (oh what was it that crazy kook called Christ said??) "Love the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself."

At the core of Rob Bell's teachings is the historically-focused practice of humble questioning. He points out that in the Judaic tradition of Jesus, learning was more than just rote memorization - you were *supposed* to answer a question with a question. Furthermore, the faith tradition of Jesus was always intended to grow and change with the times... and it always has! It's an easy trap to fall into, to accept the revolutionary teachings of a wise predecessor, and forget that they *weren't tradition* when they were first suggested.

This book had me almost constantly smiling, and not just because Bell was simply eloquently stating my own thoughts. His writing style is casual, conversational and accessible. His history was in-depth enough to engender trust, yet interesting enough to make me want to actually read up on ancient Judaic practices myself! It would be a great book for anyone who is new to Christianity, and CERTAINLY for anyone who finds themself put off by the current public face of the faith.

Just be forewarned - his end-notes will have you running to the library to increase your personal Mt. To-Be-Read!(less)

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Apr 04, 2008

Matt Moment rated it

Keeping in mind that this is the first "Christian" book I've ever finished and that I loath going into "Christian" stores and purchasing things produced by "Christian" companies my review of this book will consist only of a single idea portrayed in the piece that is worth all four of the stars I gave it.

I can't find the exact quote but here's the idea (and it's geared toward proclaimed "Christians");
If you woke up tomorrow and there were ...more

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Jan 27, 2008

Rebecca rated it

I am watching the Nooma video series that Rob Bell does so I decided to read this book to understand his theology. I was concerned. For one, I found often that his analogies or explanations were so vague that I often wondered "and what does that mean!"

Unfortunately as I read Velvet Elvis, I actually found myself getting bored with Christianity...taking out the element of faith in God feels like taking out the adventure. Bell's theology diminishes the sovereignty of God, the...more

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Oct 30, 2007

Tim rated it

· review of another edition

Did I enjoy this book? Yes and no. Do I think this book makes a valuable contribution to Christian literature? Yes and no.

Firstly, there is nothing exorbitantly wrong in this book. I think there are ideas in it which are over emphasized and exalted maybe a little too much.

I like Rob Bell's vision of reaching out to people where they are and giving them the opportunity to experience a relationship with Christ ad then gradually come into a full knowledge of Christianity...moreDid I enjoy this book? Yes and no. Do I think this book makes a valuable contribution to Christian literature? Yes and no.

Firstly, there is nothing exorbitantly wrong in this book. I think there are ideas in it which are over emphasized and exalted maybe a little too much.

I like Rob Bell's vision of reaching out to people where they are and giving them the opportunity to experience a relationship with Christ ad then gradually come into a full knowledge of Christianity. It makes sense. That's how it goes. First milk, then solid food.

I like that he talks about the need of understanding the setting, the cultural values of the time, and so on to be able to understand the Bible better.

I like that he encourages people to think critically and discern what they take in. He even exhorts the reader to do this with his book!

I don't like that his idea of a fluid faith (the whole spring analogy) that is growing and adapting seems pretty flimsy. It's hard to get an idea of just how far he might "Repaint" the Christian faith.

I don't like that his writing seems to speak of an idea that the Bible is almost unreadable without the full context of history and a full knowledge of the bible. Yea, the Bible is a difficult book, and there is a lot of nuances, treasures in scripture to be gleaned, and even things to stumble over. But, the bible is also pretty straight forward in a lot of areas. On this note I do like that he does talk about studying the Bible in community. That's a good idea no matter the other things.

Lastly, I'm not sure I understand Rob Bell's eschatology (the stuff that happens at the end of the world). He talks a lot about either bringing heaven here now or bringing hell here now. It seems a bit... odd. It just doesn't sit right.

Rob Bell has enormous influence and this book enjoys enormous popularity. Unfortunately, I think the truths that are in this book to claim are surrounded by a lot of mis-truth or at the very least unclear truth.

Feel free to pass this one up.(less)

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Jul 23, 2007

Mark rated it

Trendy to be trendy. I felt like Rob Bell was trying to be different, when there was no other reason than to fool people to think he is trendy. Maybe it was his way of hiding is wishy washy Christianity. Allowing people to question the virgin birth and divinity of Christ is a grievous error. I am sad that so many people have been deceived by some "trendy", but not truthful writing. Beyond the theological errors, I felt like I was just trying to finish the book the whole time.

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Jun 01, 2007

Mandy rated it

Recommends it for: Mindy, Brandy, religious thinkers

I was surprised at how much of the time I found myself agreeing with Rob Bell. His central theme—that we can't continue to talk to people about faith and do things the same old way—is true. The way my parents talked about faith, entered into worship, and told others about God really just don't work in today's world. That said, I think Rob Bell starts out with a truth, but in taking his repainting of the Christian faith to the upmost extreme, he gets on some theological shaky ground. He suggests ...more

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Mar 22, 2008

Bob rated it

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This book was everything I feared it would be. I trust "emerging" Christianity about as much as previous iterations (boomers, mega churches, the religious right, etc)...which is to say, not much.

Bell sounds just like every other emerging guy out there...interpreting the bible for himself based on personal experience, passion, and liberal use of unsubstantiated metaphor, rather than solid education, classical study, and reverence for the seriousness of the topic. I think o...more

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Jul 10, 2007

Stephen Hebert rated it

· review of another edition

Shelves: christianity

Rob Bell has a unique way of looking at the world.

As I was reading Velvet Elvis, I felt almost like I was reading a 21st century, not-so-academic, C. S. Lewis. Bell has a knack for creating effective illustrations out of quite mundane items (bricks and walls, trampolines, for example).

I say "unacademic" not to imply that Rob Bell is dumb, but only because he lacks that higher style of a C. S. Lewis.

I admit that I read Velvet Elvis rather quickly, bu...more

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Jul 08, 2007

Jonathan rated it

Shelves: personal-collection

Rob Bell is an interesting Christian leader. I hold some negative opinions toward the "Emerging/Emergent" church--I don't particularly care for the way they obsess about marketing Jesus. In general, the movement treats Jesus as a product and although they advertise Him in a very attractive way, I don't think that's the point.

Bell brings up a lot of good points in this book. He challenges readers to think and use their minds and "test everything." I think a lot of ...more

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Aug 22, 2011

Jennifer added it

Shelves: stopped-reading

I took issue with enough in this book that I stopped reading it in the middle of chapter 3.

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Nov 11, 2008

Leah rated it

Shelves: nonfiction, spirituality

I have been rather reluctant to start this book, but last night I could barely put it down. The book really does attempt to "repaint the Christian faith" by asking questions and exploring different interpretations of scripture in such a way that would probably offend many traditional churchgoers today. In my own search to find some reality in the church and my own relationship with God, this book comes at a perfect time, reassuring me that it's ok to ask questions, it's ok to doubt. ...more

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Jun 06, 2008

Penny rated it

Shelves: church-book-club, read-in-2008

After reading Rob Bell’s Velvet Elvis and a few ranting and raving reviews, I’m not going to comment on the fine points of Bell’s theology. Some are fine, and some are brittle. But, I would like to comment on the spiritual trampoline metaphor from my own experience.
I had a friend who owned a trampoline. We neighbor kids spent many hours at his house. It was amazing to watch him do flips. He could go forward and backward as high or as low as he wanted. He tried to teach me. I could only ma...more

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Oct 01, 2007

Reed rated it

Recommends it for: Frustrated Christians

Shelves: jesus-books

The book is highly poetic, which increases its resonance but it is still very much a book for Christians. I wish I could recommend it to non-believers as an example of unique and intelligent progressive Christian thinking, but so much of his language depends on at least a cursory knowledge of the faith for the impact to fully set in.

That having been said, I am a believer and it resonated tremendously with me (I only killed that fifth star because of the crossover difficulty for non-C...more

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Oct 21, 2008

Matt rated it

I will say after first reading this book I was excited. But after I chewed on it a bit I became uneasy about a lot of Rob Bell's theology or lack there of. Theres just too much wishy-washy here. I can tell that there is a desire to know and come to an understanding of God and I can even relate to some truth in some of his observations. He talks about discussing and argueing and coming to an understanding of God and Christ. However, Rob Bell really does try to not just repaint the Christian faith...more

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Feb 24, 2008

Michelle rated it

Pretty much the same line of thought as "Mere Christianity" addressing some crucial issues of our faith, but it fixed a fatal flaw of C.S. Lewis' work: It was written in a contemporary format that invites younger, less academic, but sold-out-for-Jesus readers to carry on with verver to the end in a way that Rob Bell has perfected over time with his Nooma clips. The book is written in the exact way that he speaks, making it a true trade mark accomplishment and a different style all toge...more

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Nov 23, 2011

Frank rated it

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Book Reviews: Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell and Sex God by Rob Bell

Today's book review will be two for the price of one. I'm going to discuss two different books by the same contemporary Christian author, Rob Bell. He was a musician before he was a minister and brings a fresh approach to the Bible and Christianity.

In the first book, Velvet Elvis, Bell says the Christian church needs to be dynamic, continually growing and changing based on how God leads it though the Holy Spiri...moreBook Reviews: Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell and Sex God by Rob Bell

Today's book review will be two for the price of one. I'm going to discuss two different books by the same contemporary Christian author, Rob Bell. He was a musician before he was a minister and brings a fresh approach to the Bible and Christianity.

In the first book, Velvet Elvis, Bell says the Christian church needs to be dynamic, continually growing and changing based on how God leads it though the Holy Spirit. The title refers to some artwork the author owns, a velvet painting of Elvis Presley. What if the artist, Bell asks, had decided the Elvis painting was the ultimate in art, that nothing further was needed, that no better art would ever be created after it? Just as that would be a ridiculous statement for an artist, the Christian church cannot be frozen in time, content with how things were done in the past. We need to actively seek God's will for today's church.

As radical as that may sound, Bell sticks to the trunk of the tree : salvation through Jesus, the Trinity and other mainstream Christian doctrines. He not only looks to guidance through the Holy Spirit, he also studies the past to help us better understand scripture. Much of his writing involves delving into Jewish customs and traditions to help explain the context in which various New Testament passages were written.

Bell has examined whether there are better, more Christlike, more New Testament ways to organize a church. Velvet Elvis describes how his wife, some friends and he would gather at coffee shops and talk for hours about what church could be, about its potential. He eventually helped start Mars Hill church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, which quickly grew to thousands of members.

His objective in writing about the church's rapid growth was not to brag about what “he” helped accomplish because of course, it was really God's doing, but to describe his brokenness. After a few years he became so overwhelmed with all that the church needed him to do that one Sunday he was tempted to sneak out the door and never return. Instead, he found he needed to further trust God, deal with some issues in his life and delegate some of his responsibility. This is a very moving chapter and I think all of us who have demanding, overly-busy lives can relate to the dilemma Bell faced.

Sex God is his newest book, published in 2007. He opens it by talking about how God can appear at any place in our lives to communicate and work with us, just as he appeared to Jacob in the wilderness when he was fleeing from Esau. As the author puts it: “This God doesn't need temples and holy sites and rituals. This God will speak to anybody, anywhere, anytime.”

Bell talks about how man is made in God's image and that when we treat others badly such as reviling someone or paying too much attention to the opposite sex's physical attributes we are de-humanizing them, denying that they're in God's image and thus denying the God who made them. And us.

The book talks about relationships, the sanctity of marriage, and sexuality, all from a spiritual perspective. It also discusses how these areas of life picture our romance with and love of Christ.

-- Frank Lewandowski
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Jan 23, 2009

Christie rated it

This book really resonated with me as it explores what is means to be a Christian and what Christianity really is, giving context to our faith and interpretation of the Bible.

I definitely intend to reread this book. It is a quick read, but it still contains lots of interesting perspectives. It has given me opportunities to relate Bell’s opinions to several aspects of my life and to encourage me to keep the faith, to keep searching, to keep interpreting.

A few key quotes t...more

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Jan 15, 2009

Kristy rated it

Shelves: non-fiction

"Somewhere in my basement sits a Velvet Elvis - a painting of the King himself, air-brushed onto black velvet in a wooden frame.
What if the painter of my Velvet Elvis announced there was no more need to paint, that he had painted the ultimate painting? We would think he had lost his mind because of our instinctive understanding that art is never done - it's the endless process of learning, exploring, shaping and forming.
And it's no different with faith. The Christian faith will ...more"Somewhere in my basement sits a Velvet Elvis - a painting of the King himself, air-brushed onto black velvet in a wooden frame.
What if the painter of my Velvet Elvis announced there was no more need to paint, that he had painted the ultimate painting? We would think he had lost his mind because of our instinctive understanding that art is never done - it's the endless process of learning, exploring, shaping and forming.
And it's no different with faith. The Christian faith will never be complete. We will always be exploring and discovering what it means to live in harmony with God and each other. If we don't, our faith may end up in the basement.
This book is about the endless need to keep painting. . .Rob Bell."

I began reading Velvet Elvis with the awareness that there was some controversy over it. People either seem to love it or hate it (someone even referred to it as "refreshing and frustrating"), so I was curious as to what all the fuss was about.

To be honest, I really enjoyed this book. There were some parts I struggled with, but in a way that made the book more enjoyable and impacting... it challenged me to think about what I believe and why. I think that's a good thing. Rob Bell shares some great insights and challenges in this book, especially when digging into the Jewish culture and relating it to certain scriptures in the Bible. He also shares very openly about his own personal life and struggles.

It took me a while to get used to the way Rob Bell writes, as he seems to move through various subjects as though going on a journey. Very easy reading though, as well as challenging. I would definitely recommend this book to anyone... as one reader said, "if you are looking for a strong systematic theology, you're looking in the wrong place. If you are looking for how theology lives itself out in every day life, you may have the right book."

If you are someone who has become a bit cynical or jaded with the Christian faith, this book is for you. A very refreshing and impacting read.
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Dec 10, 2008

Michael rated it

I read it/studied it 5 times (underlined, highlighted, scribbled 6 pages of interesting quotes) trying to understand what my friends find so intriguing about this disillusioned "post-Christian" and what he is trying to propagate. I finally came to the conclusion that he spends the pages playing devil's advocate, both discrediting and disproving the foundations of Christendom, (i.e. Virgin birth, resurrection of Christ, authority of Scripture, etc.) Fine by me...believe what you want......more

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Sep 01, 2007

Tara Nichols rated it

I've heard this book compared to Donald Miller's "Blue Like Jazz," and though I understand why the comparison is made (both young, hip Christian authors examining the Christian faith), I will say I was much more impacted by "Blue Like Jazz." However, Rob Bell does an excellent job of helping you look at the good in Christianity, and the things of Christianity that aren't really about Christ. It's a good read, especially if you are interested in Jesus but need to sort some t...more

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Jan 30, 2012

I-LOVE-JESUS rated it

Rob Bell has fashioned a "kool-aid" that would make Jim Jones blush in "Velvet Elvis". While the ideas of Bell sounds wonderful, are they Biblically based? The answer? NOT ON YOUR LIFE! The strict guidelines of God's word is not the easiest thing to hear, much less abide by. If we are CHRISTIAN leaders we can not afford to teach anything less than the WHOLE truth. Why is it, that the mind set of the church today is, "change the truth to fit the sinners lifestyle?" If a man go's to a pastor and s...more

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Aug 11, 2011

Kyle rated it

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Overall this is a very good effort. There is some good things and some bad. Upon reading it, it became clear that Bell is a better pastor than a theologian. This is not to say pastors are not theologians. They are. Bell's shortcomings as a theologian are more than made up by his competancy as a pastor. He writes like a really good sermon. And this is a good thing. This is especially true in the later half where Bell really shines as he highlights the implications of the truly good news of ...moreOverall this is a very good effort. There is some good things and some bad. Upon reading it, it became clear that Bell is a better pastor than a theologian. This is not to say pastors are not theologians. They are. Bell's shortcomings as a theologian are more than made up by his competancy as a pastor. He writes like a really good sermon. And this is a good thing. This is especially true in the later half where Bell really shines as he highlights the implications of the truly good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. For Bell, Jesus Christ really is good news that provides hope and healing in all the best senses of the word. He attempts, and succeeds in my opion, of providing an unsystematic vision of what a church might be through Jesus Christ.

However, the first two or three chapters are a bit sketchy at best. Bell attempts to write his own prolegamma and gets in over his head theologically. I think its fair that Bell asks critical questions of the Christian faith. I think it is fair that he tries his best to deconstruct it. This is fair because its not empty nihilism. Bell seeks to provide a positive response to what essentially amounts to a being a critique of a fundamentalist/propositionalist position in Christian and Biblical theology. However, in doing so he misses some important points here and there. The very nature of the book does not help his case. TBell backs himself into a corner by addressing highly technical issues in a highly un-technical book. His treatment of the trinity is a prime example. Bell is right to point out that "trinity" is not a Bibical word. However he underestimates the significance the reality of one God eternally existing in three persons and the three persons are one God. This is more than "doctrine". The differentiated unity is hugely significant because God's revelation to us must coincide with who he is ontologically. As Rahner well put it: the immanent trinity is the economic trinity and the economic trinity is the immanent trinity.

Again, I want to give Bell the benefit of the doubt on this one. I think its fair to ask critical questions. Sometimes asking "what if x, y, and z weren't true? What difference would it make for the Christian faith?" opens us to a place of greater place of worship and wonder. Even one of the greatest theologians of our era (in my opionion), TF Torrance, argues that the triune nature of God, more than anything, leads us to worship. Bell, according to the standards of his own church, holds these things to be true. Unfortunately, Velvet Elvis isn't the right medium to give the questions he's asking the nuanced answers they deserve.

I do not wish this to be the final word though. Bell is a pastor at heart and has a deep desire to see people embrace the God who has already embraced them and experience the liberating grace of God through Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit.(less)

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Jul 27, 2011

Colin Miller rated it

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Shelves: jesus-fu, nonfiction

Rob Bell’s Velvet Elvis is a lot of great truth wrapped up in a shoddy package.

For the record, I’m not a fan of Rob Bell’s writing, but that's mainly because I think his style works far better when he’s speaking. All these line breaks (some mid-sentence) remind me that he doesn’t have the writing chops to pull his style off and the hip packaging of Velvet Elvis just annoys me. In addition, the book’s call that you don’t swallow it uncritically is the very type of line that keeps peo...moreRob Bell’s Velvet Elvis is a lot of great truth wrapped up in a shoddy package.

For the record, I’m not a fan of Rob Bell’s writing, but that's mainly because I think his style works far better when he’s speaking. All these line breaks (some mid-sentence) remind me that he doesn’t have the writing chops to pull his style off and the hip packaging of Velvet Elvis just annoys me. In addition, the book’s call that you don’t swallow it uncritically is the very type of line that keeps people not thinking critically; because if the author said it, then surely he’s not saying anything we really need to worry about, right? Inevitably, the people who were going to be critical will, and the people that weren’t going to be critical won’t, thus the caveat simply becomes one more cool thing to say.

With that said, I think Rob Bell pulls off what the majority of other Christian writers do not: He makes deeper Bible teaching incredibly relatable to the point that most people—be it curious agnostic or devoted Christian—can sit down and read something intriguing and inspiring about who God is. If I told you that the majority of Velvet Elvis is about Jewish history, rabbinical customs and how these play into who Jesus is and who God made us to be, I doubt many would want to dive in, but with Bell’s ability to give a head message in a heart form, he pulls all these aspects into a great read about what living a Christian faith should look like (and no, it‘s not some, “Try harder, church” message). Like the writers of the Bible, Bell cites truth regardless of the source—even the hard parts that churches might want to shy away from—yet explains his belief that following Jesus is the best way to live. So even though I’m not a fan of the style or the slick packaging—something that I probably wouldn’t ever recover from in a fiction read—when it comes to Jesus, I’ve found that if I can get the truth, I’ll love you for it regardless of what the delivery method looks like. Four stars.
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Jul 26, 2011

Angela Corbin rated it

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This was originally written on my blog www.angsblogattempt.blogspot.com in August of 2006.
I read most of the rest of it later....but felt like he didn't really say much more than what he said in the opening chapters.
Something about his (seemingly) condescending attitude of discovering something 'new' that is BETTER than that 'old, stale version of Christianity' that has been passed down for thousands of years....just gets old to me. I share a lot of his feelings and thoughts. I just think h...moreThis was originally written on my blog www.angsblogattempt.blogspot.com in August of 2006.
I read most of the rest of it later....but felt like he didn't really say much more than what he said in the opening chapters.
Something about his (seemingly) condescending attitude of discovering something 'new' that is BETTER than that 'old, stale version of Christianity' that has been passed down for thousands of years....just gets old to me. I share a lot of his feelings and thoughts. I just think he could have said it all a little more concisely...
Trying so hard to be 'fresh' and 'new' and irreverent and surprising ceases to be surprising after a while. It just gets obnoxious sometimes.

Anyways...here were my initial (very positive) impressions:

I couldn't resist my curiosity when I saw this on my brother's coffee table yesterday. One of my brothers has talked about it, and my blogging brother has mentioned it several times lately too. So while my twin nephews were napping, I started Rob Bell's new book. I didn't ask Daniel for permission to read it, so don't tell him.
In his opening words, he proposes that faith is like painting. Not A painting. Not something that is already complete.
This process, was reflected in the name that Luther's contemporaries originally called themselves, "Reforming." Not Reformed.
He says that because times change, and people change (God doesn't) we need to keep re-examining, refreshing, repainting the way we understand fatih. In the process, we might not really be finding NEW things. "I am learning that what seems brand new is often the discovery of something that's been there all along-it just got lost somewhere and it needs to be picked up, dusted off, and reclaimed."
One of my favorite ideas that Rob and my brother/pastor Daniel, have really expressed well is Jesus "way" of living (in the book of John). While I still think Jesus may have been speaking of himself as the way, the road, the only route worth travelling...leading to life, I do think we often miss the concept of living the "WAY" he lived and taught us to live. He was saying that living His way, generously, with forgiveness, without bitterness, compassionately, peacefully, listening, seeking wisdom, honestly...is a better way to live. It works because it is rooted in profound truths about how the world is. It is living in tune with reality. Ultimate reality. When we live this way, we are more in sync with how the universe is. Jesus knew this. He knew it would bring full, abundant, life. Because he IS Ultimate Reality.

When we really understand that Jesus is the way, we have to face that fact that it is not about being right. It's about living rightly.

I get caught up in being right about doctrine and theology instead of recognizing the real point. Doctrines of faith aren't the point. They do help us understand the point. And we should take them seriously, but in perspective. They are merely our own words...to help us better understand God. But the moment God is 'figured out' with lines and definitions, and rules, we are no longer dealing with God. If it is something that can be defined, it's just something we've made up...something within our control. And God is not. Through all the stories of the Bible, He is constantly reminding people that he is BEYOND, and BIGGER, and MORE!

I liked some other things he said about questions..and about Christianity not being a wall of "bricks" (doctrines, like creation, the virgin birth, the Trinity) that could fall if one brick is removed. God is not defined by a wall. He is bigger, stronger. Bigger than our faith, our doctrines. And He doesn't need to be defended. He asks us instead to love him. To live His way. To love others and invite them to join us.

I didn't even finish the first chapter. And I couldn't STEAL the book, so I'll have to wait to finish.(less)

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Feb 26, 2011

Eric Sundquist rated it

This was my first theology book by a "modern" author. I suppose I shouldn't say modern, as that word is now associated with the thinking patterns from 1800-2000ish. But some people are getting tired of "post-modern," and even "emerging" has its connotations.

This was my first theology book not written by a super-conservative Christian who wants you to wear a tie to church.

My first reading (3 years ago) really stretched my thinking about all th...more

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Aug 25, 2010

Alicia rated it

Let me start by saying that I haven't gotten through this book yet. I want to, and I own the book so I will eventually, but these days there is something so inherently off-putting about Rob Bell's teaching that translates to his writing, that I just can't bring myself to do it. Now, I don't know the guy personally, and as a West Michigander, I kind of have to support the hometown boy. But, and let me preface this comment with saying that there is nothing wrong with making spirituality appealing ...more

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May 13, 2010

Sheena rated it

Shelves: christianity

Rob Bell provides a more down-to-earth perspective of the very basics of Christianity. His writing style is very stream-of-consciousness -- if you've heard or seen recordings of his speaking style, his writing is very similar. This book is good for someone who needs the basics -- why Christianity is different, how Christians should interact with the world, what challenges the Church faces in the 21st Century. Bell makes great points, but he seems to do what many other emergent Christians do -- h...more

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Jun 19, 2010

Sean rated it

In the first chapter, Bell gives an analogy that Christianity is like a trampoline and each of the springs on that trampoline are doctrines of the Christian faith. He goes on to say that each spring (doctrine) should be able to flex, essentially meaning that they can be tested, re-discussed, and re-evaluated. If one spring were to break, the trampoline would still function - just like if one of the doctrines of his faith were to be proven wrong, his faith would be able to continue.

...moreIn the first chapter, Bell gives an analogy that Christianity is like a trampoline and each of the springs on that trampoline are doctrines of the Christian faith. He goes on to say that each spring (doctrine) should be able to flex, essentially meaning that they can be tested, re-discussed, and re-evaluated. If one spring were to break, the trampoline would still function - just like if one of the doctrines of his faith were to be proven wrong, his faith would be able to continue.

Bell explains that faith, wherein the doctrines are NOT flexible, or open for re-evaluation, is like a brick wall – the bricks do not flex, and remove one brick and the whole thing falls apart.

To reinforce his trampoline analogy, Bell offers a "what if" scenario regarding the doctrine of the virgin birth. Bell claims that if it were ever proven that Jesus did in fact have an earthly father, it is not enough for his faith to fall apart. That "spring" is removed, but the "trampoline" continues to function.

What Bell apparently fails to realize (or at least fails to acknowledge in this book) is that there ARE singular doctrines of the Christian faith that if proven wrong, would cause it all to fall apart. What if archaeologists found the actual physical remains of Jesus’ body? Christianity would fall apart. Although there are many flexible doctrines within the Christian faith, the physical resurrection of Jesus is definitely NOT one of them. What if the Bible was proven by historians and textual scholars to be a complete forgery, written by individuals with somewhat similar theological and religious agendas who were lying (or at least exaggerating) about their inspiration being divine? Or take Bell's own example, if Mary wasn't a virgin when she had Jesus, that means the Bible is telling a pretty huge lie, and therefore could be lying about anything and everything else. Bell's trampoline analogy makes sense at first glance, but doesn't hold up to critical analysis.

Concerning the Bible, Bell asks, “With God being so massive and awe-inspiring and full of truth, why is his book capable of so much confusion?” and “Why did God do it this way?” As intelligent, creative, and thoughtful as Rob Bell is, he still cannot get away from the possibility that maybe God didn’t do it this “way.” He, for whatever reason, still feels the need to justify and explain and accept the Bible as God’s “truth.”

As intelligent, creative, and thoughtful as Rob Bell is, he’s still only continuing the Christian tradition of reinterpreting the Bible to keep it palatable to the modern population. Bell himself admits, “Somebody in your history decided certain Bible verses still apply and others don’t” and “everybody is resting on a set of [Biblical:] interpretations, and we need to be honest about it.” If that’s not enough to toss out the Bible completely, and just accept the fact that we’re making Christianity whatever we want it to be, I don’t know what is. Bell (along with many other Christian pastors) is creating his own version of Christianity – a positive and socially beneficial version, but his own version nonetheless, and he needs to be honest about it.

Two other things I found disappointing and frustrating with Bell are: 1. Bell (along with many other Christian pastors) claims to know all about God and what God wants. The following are just a few examples of what I mean. Pg. 107 – Bell claims to know something about God’s “core nature,” and claims that “God’s desire is to…” Pg. 161 – “God isn’t just interested in…” and “God wants to…” Pg. 177 – the book ends with the statement “It’s what Jesus had in mind.” Obviously these statements are made based on what Bell feels the Bible says about God, but as someone who believes that the Bible’s credibility is unreliable at best, I feel that these are simply subjective, and possibly fabricated, opinions about God’s character and desires. To claim that there IS a God is a bold enough statement in itself. To claim to know what God “desires” and “has in mind” is just guess-work, mixed with a bit of arrogance. 2. Bell (along with many other Christian pastors) approaches the Bible/Christianity using the devotional method, as opposed to the historical-critical method of study. This second reason for being disappointed and frustrated with Bell is more the result of a personal preference and interest in learning more about the history of the Bible instead of the ideas it actually conveys. The focus of “Velvet Elvis” isn’t to delve into any historical discussion or evaluation of the Bible/Christianity; its focus is on how the Bible/Christianity relates to us on a personal level, so I guess I can give him a pass on this one.

Overall, I enjoyed the book. Bell uses his faith to convey the message that we should continually strive to make life better for ourselves and better for others, and that’s a good message.

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