The Great Good Place: Cafes, Coffee Shops, Bookstores, Bars, Hair Salons, and Other Hangouts at the Heart of a Community

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The Great Good Place: Cafes, Coffee Shops, Bookstores, Bars, Hair Salons, and Other Hangouts at the Heart of a Community

3.76 of 5 stars 3.76 · rating details · 229 ratings · 42 reviews

The Great Good Place argues that "third places" - where people can gather, put aside the concerns of work and home, and hang out simply for the pleasures of good company and lively conversation - are the heart of a community's social vitality and the grassroots of democracy.

Paperback, 384 pages

Published August 18th 1999 by Da Capo Press (first published July 1st 1989)

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Jan 25, 2013 Johnny rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: sociology

If one spends most of one’s time at home (even if asleep a good deal of that time) and the second biggest block of time at work, that means home is your first place and work is your second place. What then, is your third place? The third place is the social venue where one has informal interaction with a group of regulars and potential newcomers such that one experiences novelty, perspective, spiritual uplift, and friends by the set (as opposed to befriending individuals). It is an enriching cro...more

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Jun 25, 2012 Stephen rated it 5 of 5 stars

In Our Oriental Heritage, Will Durant wrote that man is not willingly a political animal, that we do not love society so much as we fear solitude. As much as I love Durant's work -- the grandness of his historical approach and the rich eloquence of the language with which he expressed it -- here I must disagree with him. We are social creatures at our roots: to borrow from Augustine, we are made for each other, and our hearts are restless until we find companionship together. Such is the lesson...more In Our Oriental Heritage, Will Durant wrote that man is not willingly a political animal, that we do not love society so much as we fear solitude. As much as I love Durant's work -- the grandness of his historical approach and the rich eloquence of the language with which he expressed it -- here I must disagree with him. We are social creatures at our roots: to borrow from Augustine, we are made for each other, and our hearts are restless until we find companionship together. Such is the lesson of Roy Oldenburg’s magnificent The Great Good Place, which examines the important role of social centers in human lives, discusses the consequences of their decline in the United States today, attempts to account for why they are struggling, and appeals for their resurrection. It is a timely and momentous work.

I’ve long been tangentially familiar with the phrase, “the third place”, which refers to common gathering places for people in their communities, a place apart from home and work (the first and second places in our lives). But here is that phrase’s origin. Oldenburg begins by establishing what the third place is: a site that attracts people and allows for spontaneous meetings between friends and strangers. These places have been ubiquitous in urban environments throughout human history…at least, until the late 1940s when the United States decided to try a different approach to urban planning, creating ‘sprawls that no longer deserve the the dignity of of being called a city’*. Oldenburg’s opening chapters document the third place’s vital role in creating a sense of community, in fostering political cohesion and providing a platform for civic engagement. But not only that – they’re fun. People like to spend time together, and giving them a place to do it makes society better and improves our quality of life.After establishing this, Oldenburg then moves on some specific examples: English and Austrian coffee houses, French cafes and bistros, American taverns, and main streets. (Although the cover refers to barbershops and salons as third places, the best in his view have been these "watering holes".) This is a book strongly reminiscent of Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone: the Decline and Revival of American Community, but while Putnam examined the disintegration of American public life at large, Oldenburg zooms in to everyday life.

If the third place is so important, so vital to healthy personal and national life, how have we allowed ours to be destroyed? Hindsight is always perfect vision: in this case, third places are so normal to the human experience that we take them for granted, and only their loss makes us realize their importance. While third places can be destroyed by the short-sightedness of business owners who discourage "loitering" and convert attractive sitting places into yet more display areas, ultimately the problem is foundational: America's urban landscape is atrocious; "badly staged", in Oldenburg's words. Time and again he scolds planners for creating municipalities where no one can walk anywhere, of building pod after pod of "nothing neighborhoods", of abandoning the diverse density of cities for suburbia's lifeless homogeneity.

The Great Good Place is a fascinating combination of sociology and history with a lot of insight. The loss of third places goes beyond people not having a place to have a drink together. One of the consequences Oldenburg explores is that as community life fades as an alternative, people are forced to look for solace on their own, by attempting to buy happiness in the stores -- and the more they focus on themselves, the less inclined they are to seek connections with other people and the more miserable they are. The fascinating link between alienation and advertising is one of the many gems found in here.

Books like these are why I read in the first place. This isn't a subject of mere academic interest: this is a book that tells us something important about ourselves, with ideas that can change our lives and help Americans concerned about the United States' declining health begin to recover from it. Although the absence of any mention of the internet might date it (a book like this published today would have to address social networking sites), it's never more timely. Ten years after Oldenburg published this, the New Urbanism movement took off -- and reaffirming and reestablishing community life is at the heart of it. As America's urban pattern is forced to change in recognition of suburban's fiscal failure, I hope when we begin building we keep Oldenburg's insights in mind, and build third places.

I cannot recommend this highly enough.

Related:

Bowling Alone: the Decline and Revival of American Community, Robert Putnam
Suburban Nation, Andres Duany et. al(less)

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Apr 21, 2011 Paul Signorelli rated it 5 of 5 stars

Shelves: collaboration, community, sociology

Few books have had greater influence on the way we perceive communities, community-building, and collaboration than Ray Oldenburg's "The Great Good Place." The terms he introduces have become part of our lexicon: the first place (home), the second place (work), and the third place--the great good place, which is where we meet, socialize, share ideas with, and learn from friends and acquaintances who become part of our personal and extended community. In the first part of his book, Oldenburg desc...more

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Jun 20, 2012 Liam rated it 4 of 5 stars

"The examples set by societies that have solved the problem of place and those set by the small towns and vital neighborhoods of our past suggest that daily life, in order to be relaxed and fulfilling, must find its balance in three realms of experience. One is domestic, a second is gainful or productive, and the third is inclusively sociable, offering the basis of community and the celebration of it." (14)

"Necessarily, a transformation must occur as one passes through the portals of a third pla...more

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Jan 29, 2010 Zach rated it 2 of 5 stars

Shelves: 2010-books, general-non-fiction

Interesting 100 page idea stretched out to fill over 300 pages.

The idea of a 3rd place between home and work can contribute to well being, community, relationships not dictated by work or class is interesting, but the author seems to repeat it over and over.

Also this idea may have been novel 20 years ago, but the recent republishing fails to acknowledge major societal shifts, women at almost equal numbers to men in the work force and the rise of the internet.

The author also seems focused on a...more

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Dec 02, 2012 Jim Dressner rated it 5 of 5 stars

Shelves: non-fiction

This is a great book! The author argues compellingly for critical role of The Third Place (after the first two places: Work and Home) in bringing a richness to human life. He talks about the problem in North America, then champions the role of the Third Place in general before embarking on a historical review of Third Places in western societies. He lambastes suburban life for its anti-social tendencies, and advocates strongly for walkable neighborhoods, places (like Cheers) where everyone knows...more

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Nov 03, 2007 Miranda rated it 3 of 5 stars

Read this in Library School and really enjoyed it. Now I need to read Bowling Alone.

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Mar 05, 2012 Farrah rated it 2 of 5 stars

Parts were very thought provoking and informative, but it was too focused and biased toward the third places of men. Even when women and children were present in a third place, they were discussed in terms of how the affected the activity and community of men. Much more of the book should have addressed the third places of women in history and recommendations for how to create new third places for everyone. Third places of the past will not meet the needs and physical environment of today and th...more

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Apr 15, 2010 Elise rated it 4 of 5 stars

First place: Home
Second place: Work
Third place: Local establishments where, when you are not at your first or second places, you can hang out, run into acquaintances, socialize, gossip. Where everybody knows your name. Where you can leave your kid and know that someone will keep an eye on her. An endangered species.

Reading this book made me want to operate a third place (or a great good place). Or (perhaps the more reasonable option) at least move to a neighborhood full of great good places. At...more

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Jun 01, 2010 Nick Klagge rated it 2 of 5 stars

After Elise read this book and liked it, I had high expectations. I had just finished reading "Bowling Alone" and was excited to continue reading on the topic of community (see also "Little Chapel On The River"). Ultimately, though, I felt pretty disappointed in this book. In contrast to Robert Putnam, Oldenburg makes very little effort to incorporate academic research into his book. He may well be a highly skilled sociologist, but his totally casual style ends up making him seem more fly-by-nig...more

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Mar 23, 2013 Jay rated it 5 of 5 stars

Shelves: sociology, constructs, business

I'm convinced... While many problems exist in America that have gotten us to where we are today, Great Good Places or "third places" are the beginning of solving nearly all of them.

No matter how educated or brilliant individuals are, synergy will win eventually. And those conditions do not occur within the home, but in the democratic, socially-leveled places where anyone may enter and be a part. Social isolation in urban areas but especially in suburbia severely magnifies the effects of weaker v...more

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Oct 08, 2009 Ben rated it 1 of 5 stars

I liked the idea behind this book, which is what prompted me to pick it up and read it. Here we are, a month and a half later, having finished three good books in the interim, and I've finally finished it. The fist part was interesting, albiet dry and slow going. The second part was also interesting although parts of it started to lose its appeal. The final part was filled with outrageous claims that at times made me question the author's sanity.

Anyways, the opening explains the point of the boo...more I liked the idea behind this book, which is what prompted me to pick it up and read it. Here we are, a month and a half later, having finished three good books in the interim, and I've finally finished it. The fist part was interesting, albiet dry and slow going. The second part was also interesting although parts of it started to lose its appeal. The final part was filled with outrageous claims that at times made me question the author's sanity.

Anyways, the opening explains the point of the book. The author laments the loss of an informal public life, which had been maintained by third places (the first place being your home and the second place being your work).

The second part goes through a description of several different third places ranging from French Cafes to Main Street in small town America. Again, this part was interesting.

Finally, the author tried to draw conclusions and give the book an ending. This part really lost it. It dropped the review down a few stars. The author starts out sounding like an old man complaining about the way things were, but some of the author's claims are just insane. They make no sense. Which is frustrating because he still has one or two nuggets of information which get lost amid the sea of craziness. The simple fact is that not all of soceity's problems would be solved if everyeone went to a neighborhood bar for a beer or two every night. The author has serious problems with car-centered suburbia which I totally agree with but he makes no difference between car-centered suburubia and anything else. I live in the city. I don't even own a car. I can walk or take public transportation anywhere I go. Anyways, I'll give you just an idea of some of the author's outrageous claims. I apologize in advance for not offering all the context of each of these statements, but if I did that, this review would get too long and be a little too dry. And no context would fully explain these statements. 'Perceptive people often note the difference in their friends or acquaintances when the spouse is present and when he or she is not. They are stuck by the wondrous transformation when the spouse is not present. A husband may regard his wife, along with all other women, as 'dumb' or 'childlike.' He may be exceedingly 'touchy' and respond to everything she says with belligerence. He may level a steady stream of criticism at her in an attempt to bolster his self-esteem. Women often seem hyperconcerned about the impressions their husbands make in the company of others. They may correct their husbands, excuse or apologize for their shortcomings; they may critically monitor everything their husbands have to say. The male at middle age is noted for his passivity under this form of oppression. He doesn't try to be witty, interesting, or to enjoy himself when his wife is around.' 'Only in adolescence do males and females 'hang out' fairly well together.' 'A woman's mood in her home is enhanced by the presence of her spouse but depressed by the presence of her children.' 'In today's schools no less than earlier ones, the abiding concern is with accounting for the location of bodies and not the development of minds.' 'Eventually Americans will learn that the fast and hectic pace of urban life is not due to modernity but to bad urban planning.' There are more that I can't find at the moment, including the one drawing correlations between lack of a third place and domestic violence.

The author doesn't even mention the internet. I know this book was first published in 1989, but this edition was republished years later with an updated preface and the author makes no mention of the social benefits of the internet and how the younger generation uses it to socialize and keep in touch with friends across the country and around the world. This is an obvious ommission.

Just as I regretting picking Nickel and Dimed rather than the Working Poor. I really regret reading this instead of Bowling Alone.(less)

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Oct 29, 2010 Rachel rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: brainy

A colleague at work suggested this to get folks thinking about how to look at museums as a third space, how to encourage more community interaction/community building within the scope of the museum. It's an interesting concept, and one that kids are very natural at, but not so much for grownups. Think about it, when you are out in the community—coffee shop, post office, grocery store—how often to you really start up a conversation? Unless you actually bump into someone you know, probably not ver...more

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Jan 27, 2010 Stacy Montgomery rated it 3 of 5 stars

I read this book for a class on the material culture of public houses in England. The discussion of third places was certainly fascinating, but I had a very hard time seeing past the sexist attitude of the author. I found myself getting very mad and needing to walk away from the book; however, I am very glad I read it. I think the concept of the third place is very relevant and it has certainly come in handy when researching and writing about historic third places. I recommend reading it while b...more

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Jun 08, 2010 Penny rated it 3 of 5 stars

I only read Part I of this book and skimmed the rest very quickly. In Part I he defines "third place" and explains it's benefits and how we've lost it in American culture. In Part II he describes several examples of third places past and present around the world, and in Part III he discusses some miscellaneous issues related to third places and ends with a call to restore them (mainly by creating spaces for them in our neighborhoods and cities).

The premise in Part I is that third places – the lo...more I only read Part I of this book and skimmed the rest very quickly. In Part I he defines "third place" and explains it's benefits and how we've lost it in American culture. In Part II he describes several examples of third places past and present around the world, and in Part III he discusses some miscellaneous issues related to third places and ends with a call to restore them (mainly by creating spaces for them in our neighborhoods and cities).

The premise in Part I is that third places – the local pub or other "hang-out" that is not work and not home, is vital to our personal contentment and to the health of society. Third places provide space for people of different social classes to mix in a more or less egalitarian way, a place to develop casual, non-burdensome friendships (as opposed to thinking that a spouse or one close friend should meet all our emotional needs), promote civil behavior (due to providing harmless stress relief, etc.) and even strengthen democracy. Oldenburg believes that our suburban life has led to an unhealthy level of isolation because neighborhoods are zoned to prohibit informal gathering spaces that can become third places. Providing the space is crucial because third places need to arise organically; they cannot be "organized."

As other Goodreads readers have said, there are some problems with this book. First, it is screaming for an update in our internet age, but I believe there are people studying "virtual third places" so maybe someone will write the sequel soon. Second, he is very male-centric, though I don't think he's as blatantly sexist as some reviewers have said. The problem is not so much that he is anti-woman as it is that he is sometimes oblivious to the problem of women's lack of access to these third places, and at other times acknowledges it but seems to minimize it. (And by the way, Mr. Oldenburg: a place where women have to bring their children along when they gather is NOT a third place by your definition! It is, at best, a 1st place/3rd place hybrid.)

But his real concern and the point of this book is that these third places are lacking for everyone, male and female, in American culture. His description of the pleasures and benefits of third places in Part I certainly convinced me that this is something I would love to have in any city I lived in.
(less)

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Nov 07, 2008 Kelly rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: read-for-library-school, read-in-2008, non-fiction

Part I: 4 stars.
Part II: 2.5 stars.
Part III: doesn't deserve a rating.

This book explores a great concept. When it was originally release, it certainly was pretty revolutionary thought. Now, I think we've all heard it and experienced it, so it's not too revolutionary.

But what gets me is the sexist and anti-American sentiment with which Oldenburg writes. Women are obviously the reason men's places have closed, he claims. Most disturbingly, though, is that one of his comments is that women have all...more Part I: 4 stars.
Part II: 2.5 stars.
Part III: doesn't deserve a rating.

This book explores a great concept. When it was originally release, it certainly was pretty revolutionary thought. Now, I think we've all heard it and experienced it, so it's not too revolutionary.

But what gets me is the sexist and anti-American sentiment with which Oldenburg writes. Women are obviously the reason men's places have closed, he claims. Most disturbingly, though, is that one of his comments is that women have all the free time in the world. Women do nothing but stay at home all day, so why should they need a third place? It's only the men who work then come home to women who are bitching at them who need a place. Men apparently need the third place to avoid beating their wives. This is a passage in the book, not my fabrication.

I guess this would bother me less if this book weren't in its third edition. Oldenburger's book first printed at a time when maybe there were less women working. But now there is no excuse. Anyone with a bit of education is aware that women, in fact, often work two shifts - the work shift and the home shift. Men, even with women in the workplace, do not contribute to the house work any more now than they did when the wives were at home all day. So, even though this is well-known, Oldenburg gives no credence.

Throughout the entire book, I was able to indicate passages of blatant sexism. It's time to revise for the times.

And does Oldenburg offer any way to amend the situations which he discusses? That would make this more powerful. Oldenburg dwells too much in disparaging America and the American landscape. Instead, he spends an entire section praising European establishments. Though this could be useful, it's shortsighted. Oldenburg doesn't take into account the fact America is young; we don't have the history and legacy upon which European cities thrive. We can't even pretend to equate that. Our cities were just build differently, and our populations grew in ways unlike any European city has seen.

Before this goes further, I'll state this much: the first part of this book is important. Read it, but stop there. (less)

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Mar 31, 2011 Jennifer rated it 2 of 5 stars

Shelves: museums

I'm sympathetic to the main thesis of this book (that the demise of public places for socialization is a problem in American life). But I don't understand how a professional sociologist could be so tone-deaf regarding how changes in gender relations, race, and class have impacted the societal shifts he's describing. I can't imagine that the book didn't seem dated when it was published in 1989, let alone when he had the chance to revise it for a second edition in 1999. The over-generalization bas...more

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Feb 21, 2009 Pat rated it 3 of 5 stars

Excellent thoughts on "third places"--those great gathering spots that are neither home nor work--and the value they have in a community and in our lives. A little dated already, especially in terms of women's roles and not taking gay and lesbian families into account, but there's much to think about and wish for.

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May 05, 2012 Bill rated it 3 of 5 stars

Clearly a book written for a trade market by an academic sociologist. A decent read, but leaves something to be desired from an academic perspective. Oldenburg seems to have some cultural bias and doesn't really explain the academic studies that he reports on. Yet, this is a worthy discussion of community.

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May 24, 2012 Dave'n rated it 4 of 5 stars

"Precious and unique benefits accrue to those who regularly attend third places and who value those forms of social intercourse found there. The leveling, primacy of conversation, certainty of meeting friends, looseness of structure, and eternal reign of the imp of fun all combine to set the stage for experiences unlikely to be found elsewhere...The benefits of participation both delight and sustain the individual."

"for letting one's hair down...Many a dutiful wife and mother will confess that s...more

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Nov 02, 2011 Lesley rated it 2 of 5 stars

Shelves: library-stuff

Unfortunately, I didn't even finish the book. It was very dry, kind of repetitive and didn't get to what I was really looking for. I think the concept is sound, but I need to get the information in other ways.

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Sep 18, 2010 Alison rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: non-fiction

This book had a lot of interesting ideas. I agree that people need a life (social interaction) outside of home and work and recognize that that's no longer the norm in our society. I didn't agree with some of his gender stereotypes.

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Mar 05, 2013 Joanne Stevenson rated it 3 of 5 stars

It started great, but toward the middle it started to fall apart as he clumsily explored gender differentiated places.

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Oct 01, 2012 Eben Muse rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: books-and-bookselling

I like the concept, but he does not deal very much with bookselling.

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Feb 16, 2012 Monica rated it 4 of 5 stars

A really interesting take on public spaces- and a thoughtful critique of the lack of public spaces in the US.

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Feb 02, 2011 Alexandra rated it 4 of 5 stars

I took this book out from the library on the suggestion of a friend. I loved it, though Oldenburg occasionally got bogged down in facts and trying to prove his point too much. This book was written around 1990, and a lot has changed in 20 years, but I found the ideas in the book stirred up a lot of thoughts on the "great good places" of 2010 and beyond. I wouldn't shut up about this book to anyone, so while it may not have always been the most gripping read [it took me 3 months to finish!] it de...more

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Oct 11, 2011 Megan rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: non-fiction

It is an interesting idea but there are some gender things in the last few chapters that are quite odd.

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Dec 06, 2007 Mister rated it 5 of 5 stars

Although it did take me months to read, that wasn't because it wasn't interesting - I was busy is all. The book is a tidy discussion on sociology and urban planning centered around the need and availability of public spaces. Does that sound dull? It shouldn't. This book really gets to the core of why I enjoy european cities and why there are so few US cities I would bother living in.

What to do with the book when you are done with it: lend it to someone who likes living in San Francisco; they won...more

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Jul 15, 2010 Janet rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: avid-ideas, skimmers

It was due back at the library, and I wasn't interested enough to keep it past its due date. A good book, but I think many of Oldenburg's once-novel ideas are now understood and talked about more fluently, especially if you expose yourself to books about business and community.

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Apr 26, 2012 Steven Farmer rated it 5 of 5 stars

Excellent.

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“The course of urban development in America is pushing the individual toward that line seperating proud independence from pitiable isolation.” — 1 person liked it

“The development of an informal public life depends people finding and enjoying one another outside the cash nexus.” — 1 person liked it

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