80th out of 575 books
—
742 voters
Native Tongue (Native Tongue #1)
Called "fascinating" by the New York Times upon its first publication in 1984, Native Tongue won wide critical praise and cult status, and has often been compared to the futurist fiction of Margaret Atwood. Set in the twenty-second century, the novel tells of a world where women are once again property, denied civil rights and banned from public life. Earth's wealth depend...more
Paperback, 327 pages
Published
2000
by Feminist Press at the City University of New York
(first published 1984)
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Aug 02, 2011
Kaion
rated it
5 of 5 stars
Recommends it for:
people who read language blogs, the multi-lingual, feminists
Recommended to Kaion by:
(Feminist Reader's Network Aug '11 Group Read)
To make something “appear is called magic, is it not? Well…. when you look at another person, what do you see? … Now there is a continuous surface of the body, a space that begins with the inside flesh of the fingers and continues over the palm of the hand and up the inner side of the arm to the bend of the elbow. Everyone has that surface; in fact, everyone has two of them … I will name the “athad” of the person. Imagine the athad, please. See it clearly in your mind—perceive, here are my own t...more
Upon buying:
Just look at how amazing that cover is. HOW COULD I SAY NO.
Upon finishing:
The cover had disappointingly little to do with the book. I wanted babies in giant test tubes presided over by gigantic happy aliens, ok?
I am torn as to what I should rate this book. I think it's a 3.5 but I'll round up. Parts of the feminism were so ridiculous that after a while I was like God I get it, women's lives suck in your future! Women are considered minors in this crappy future, and can't hold jobs or...more
Just look at how amazing that cover is. HOW COULD I SAY NO.
Upon finishing:
The cover had disappointingly little to do with the book. I wanted babies in giant test tubes presided over by gigantic happy aliens, ok?
I am torn as to what I should rate this book. I think it's a 3.5 but I'll round up. Parts of the feminism were so ridiculous that after a while I was like God I get it, women's lives suck in your future! Women are considered minors in this crappy future, and can't hold jobs or...more
Nov 22, 2008
Jenni
rated it
4 of 5 stars
·
review of another edition
Recommended to Jenni by:
Penny Heal
Loved this - very happy to learn (after years of seeing this in bookshops and not getting round to picking it up) that it is in fact the first of a trilogy of feminist sf. And classic feminist sf it is too - classic sf, for that matter, with a very different society from ours clearly and intriguingly delineated in convincing detail.
I say very different society, but in fact it's a dystopia clearly originating from twentieth-century feminist concerns - like The Handmaid's Tale, the cold war betwe...more
I say very different society, but in fact it's a dystopia clearly originating from twentieth-century feminist concerns - like The Handmaid's Tale, the cold war betwe...more
A stimulating futuristic foray for feminist linguists, "Native Tongue" is conceptually and linguistically abundant, if a bit wobbly where the plot is concerned. Elgin's sci-fi premise - that a couple hundred years in the future, women are back to being chattel and linguists are the highest social echelon because they wield the ability to translate across interplanetary humanoid species - brings the power of language to the narrative forefront.
Many language historians propose that today's langua...more
Many language historians propose that today's langua...more
I enjoyed it the first time I read it (I've studied Linguistics myself, which made it interesting) and I occasionally enjoy re-reading. But the re-reads expose more and more holes in the plot that get more and more irritating.
How on earth did the US constitution get amended at a time when women still had the vote? And why does a change to the US constitution apparently affect the whole world?
Why do Linguists live so austerely as a public relations measure when they can see for themselves that it...more
How on earth did the US constitution get amended at a time when women still had the vote? And why does a change to the US constitution apparently affect the whole world?
Why do Linguists live so austerely as a public relations measure when they can see for themselves that it...more
I loved this book. Incredibly detailed and yet down-to-earth rendition of a fully realized misogynistic future in which women are treated like children - the best men try to be gentle with them and indulgent of their weakness, the worst men are flat out cruel. There is no escape from this kind of relentless social belief. The intriguing storyline of alien trade and linguistics unfolds elegantly. Elgin never tries too hard to force the world as it is down our throats - instead, as a truly skilled...more
Women have no rights and are the property of men. Aliens communicate with humans through the families of the linguist 'Lines', who have a monopoly on learning Alien languages. The women of the Lines, as restricted and patronized as any other women, have developed a secret language for women only. If the men find out, they're doomed. But the Aliens are watching ...
I read this book years ago (it was published in 1984) and I had an immediate visceral reaction: yes, she's right. The male characters...more
I read this book years ago (it was published in 1984) and I had an immediate visceral reaction: yes, she's right. The male characters...more
The majority (and important part) of this book takes place about 200 years from now. The world has changed dramatically. Aliens are our trading partners and women have been relegated to the role of perpetual child. All their rights have been removed and they are allowed to do nothing without permission from their male relatives. The Linguists, a group of families that devote their time to the aquisition of new alien languages, are the prime focus of the book, and we learn many fascinating things...more
This book was all about languages, and their ability to create whole mind - sets which is a very fascinating point of interest for me. This book was written in 1984, from a feminists perspective, so it was a surreal experience to time warp back to that time. It's a science fiction book where the Earth was in contact with many alien worlds, and seeking to expand trade and colonies, which required the ability to communicate with many different cultures. There were 13 families on Earth who used the...more
At first it was the cover. I couldn't resist the cuuute little baby facing the smiling alien!
Then, I plunged head first in the linguist families who facilitate human communication with alien races (that's the SF part). I met the struggling women of the Lines, poor Nazareth Chorniak being bred like cattle and ill-treated... in a future dystopian American society where the 19th Amendment was repealed in 1996 and women have been stripped of civil rights.(That's the social part. By the way, in that...more
Then, I plunged head first in the linguist families who facilitate human communication with alien races (that's the SF part). I met the struggling women of the Lines, poor Nazareth Chorniak being bred like cattle and ill-treated... in a future dystopian American society where the 19th Amendment was repealed in 1996 and women have been stripped of civil rights.(That's the social part. By the way, in that...more
Native Language by Suzette Haden Elgin offers us an alternate present where men have taken back all the rights of women. In this new reality not only are women property again there are Aliens and a certain few family lines have learned to train their young to speak those languages. In general they have trapped themselves. The general population hates them for their absolute dependancy and the government encourages a media that lies about their excess just to feed that hatred.
I don’t know how mu...more
I don’t know how mu...more
Jun 08, 2008
Nathan
added it
I'll never forgive the university professors who made me read this novel. Some of the sci-fi elements in it were interesting and it posed some compelling linguistic questions but mostly it was just tiresome. The majority of the narrative is the kind heavy-handed man-hating that has done more to hurt the cause of feminism than further it. Every man in the novel is a cowardly, misogynistic tyrant while every woman is a long-suffering, angelic saint. I found the whole thing simply tedious.
When your novel starts with a board meeting, you know you're in for a real thrill ride. I feel like this was written by an author with good ideas and solid linguistic knowledge, but no real feel for writing fiction. The multiple plots meshed together awkwardly. The characters were mostly one-dimensional, particularly the male linguists. Almost everything was told, not shown.
Does this have value, as the essay in my edition* claims, as a feminist document? I don't know. In 1984 when this was publ...more
Does this have value, as the essay in my edition* claims, as a feminist document? I don't know. In 1984 when this was publ...more
I originally read this back in 11th grade when it served to inflame my already heated discussions and beliefs about gender equality and feminism. Re-reading it after studying literary theory and learning something about linguistics/cognitive science has changed this novel to something much deeper and more inquisitive than a simple distopia.
In a science fiction setting, Elgin tackles the very profound subject of language creation. As the women in her novel create a language between themselves to...more
In a science fiction setting, Elgin tackles the very profound subject of language creation. As the women in her novel create a language between themselves to...more
If you take this book at face value, there is a lot of character development, an interesting exposition device and not a lot of action. If you read the author’s academic background (given in an interesting afterward note), this book is an application of her feminist theories. I’m not sure that I think the book is successful at either the story or the academic exercise.
The story itself is presented as a historic journal of events in the past. Ficticious essays are used to give you the informatio...more
The story itself is presented as a historic journal of events in the past. Ficticious essays are used to give you the informatio...more
Set in the twenty-second century, the book explores the importance of language in creating and perceiving reality. In this future, women's civil rights have been lost and they are treated as men's possession - their role is to breed and work as translaters with alien species, with whom Earth is in trade.
The book is dated in its concepts (1984), written against the backdrop of Reagan's conservative push, and more of an "idea" book than science fiction. Yet, it explores a fascinating question: Th...more
The book is dated in its concepts (1984), written against the backdrop of Reagan's conservative push, and more of an "idea" book than science fiction. Yet, it explores a fascinating question: Th...more
One of three books in Lisa's Feminist Sci-Fi Canon.
The synopsis: Thanks to a carefully orchestrated political campaign by cultural conservatives, women in the U.S. have their civil rights stripped and they're officially made property of male citizens. Against THIS dynamic, intelligent extraterrestrials make contact with Earth, and all of a sudden, linguists are in incredible demands. The women in one linguist house hatch an idea: What if there was a women-only language, something women could use...more
The synopsis: Thanks to a carefully orchestrated political campaign by cultural conservatives, women in the U.S. have their civil rights stripped and they're officially made property of male citizens. Against THIS dynamic, intelligent extraterrestrials make contact with Earth, and all of a sudden, linguists are in incredible demands. The women in one linguist house hatch an idea: What if there was a women-only language, something women could use...more
This fiction is one of the more masterful pieces of literature of the 20th century. It should be considered for inclusion in reading lists for English majors. Don't let that terrorize you. The book is engrossing; the plot is multilayered; the concept is unique; and the characters are easy to understand.
On the surface it's about learning to communicate with life forms so alien, it requires human children to interact with aliens during the child's language forming years. A secondary plot line deal...more
On the surface it's about learning to communicate with life forms so alien, it requires human children to interact with aliens during the child's language forming years. A secondary plot line deal...more
I found this book surprisingly enjoyable. The plot and characters are excellent, and it is very well written. The feminist angle is laid on pretty thick, and as such there are parts which angered me quite a bit, but once I got past the first few chapters that started to fade away as the plot gained momentum. Elgin has created a society and a future that is both fascinating and infuriating, an appropriate backdrop for the machinations of these heroic women whose intelligence is so inconceivable t...more
First let me say that the "concept" of this book is definitely 5 stars. The idea that a language can influence culture and behavior, and ultimately the outcome of history is really brilliant. However, the author fails to take this brilliant idea beyond the concept. The plot drags, the storytelling is boring, the characterizations are flat, and the flow is cumbersome.
There are so many flaws in this story. The characters are terribly two -dimensional, almost to the point of being inhuman. For exam...more
There are so many flaws in this story. The characters are terribly two -dimensional, almost to the point of being inhuman. For exam...more
Native Tongue reads as though someone had crafted an interesting and beautiful SciFi novella, but then battered and distorted it with the crude hammer of Feminism, somehow doubling its length in the process. In some places there are distinct paragraphs, pages, or chapters that seem haphazardly inserted into the text, written in a different style and without the nuance of character or theme of the surrounding words, just to drive home some blatant idea about gender relations. The unevenness of th...more
I read this while in high school (probably when I was 15), and the stars I gave it are purely an emotional reaction to my memory of that book. I didn't like it because it disturbed and almost frightened me. I could not identify with the angry women in the story and their oppressive male counterparts, except as I'd seen such people depicted in other media. I can't speak to the craft of the novel, since I was too young/uninformed to take that context with me while I read it. That said, it has clea...more
A nice concept, badly executed. From reading this I got the image of the author sitting behind a typewriter bashing the keys while screaming 'All men are bastards!' over and over again.
Besides that, the dystopian society is just not very well realised. Why are women second class citizens? *shrug* As far as I remember, it isn't mentioned. I would have to assume it's because all men are bastards.
Having more of the language in the actual book would have been nice.
For a good feminist dystopian stor...more
Besides that, the dystopian society is just not very well realised. Why are women second class citizens? *shrug* As far as I remember, it isn't mentioned. I would have to assume it's because all men are bastards.
Having more of the language in the actual book would have been nice.
For a good feminist dystopian stor...more
I loved this one. Still gives me shivers. Women should read this book. It's so much more than Sci Fi. The women are second class citizens, but they are the linguists, in a world where linguists are a necessity for survival. Treated like children, they are separated and coddled and being allowed to create a language of their own. The men see it as frivolous as everything else women do, little do they know... It is powerful and moving and one of my favorites.
Recommended reading from: http://www.f...more
Recommended reading from: http://www.f...more
This is an interesting story, but from a speculative fiction point of view, I found it too implausible to be good speculation. Not in terms of science or alien encounters, but in human interactions. I also don't think women 'win' by becoming separate from men, and I don't think I would have thought that in the historical context in which the book is written either. Hello-- separate but equal??
The best part, by far, was the idea that a language-- or at the very least altering one's lexicon-- can...more
The best part, by far, was the idea that a language-- or at the very least altering one's lexicon-- can...more
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Sep 01, 2011
Rhiannon
rated it
3 of 5 stars
·
review of another edition
Recommended to Rhiannon by:
The Feminist Readers Network
This book had an amazing concept. It was full of amazing ideas (the creation of a secret language for an oppressed second class - women). But, it lacked several things, in my opinion, that prevented it from living up to the proclamation: "feminist science fiction classic."
One of those things was characterization. The first one hundred or so pages in the book had no distinct character for the reader to engage with. There are several plot points expounded in male points of view that readers are su...more
One of those things was characterization. The first one hundred or so pages in the book had no distinct character for the reader to engage with. There are several plot points expounded in male points of view that readers are su...more
One-Sentence Summary:
In a future dystopia where the feared and despised linguists rule the world with their ability to communicate with extraterrestrials, a group of women try to overcome their second-class citizen status by creating their own language.
Review:
In the late 22nd and early 23rd centuries, the citizens of Earth are divided into two groups: the linguists, whose duty it is to learn the languages of the aliens that space exploration discovers, and the non-linguists, who are brainwashed...more
In a future dystopia where the feared and despised linguists rule the world with their ability to communicate with extraterrestrials, a group of women try to overcome their second-class citizen status by creating their own language.
Review:
In the late 22nd and early 23rd centuries, the citizens of Earth are divided into two groups: the linguists, whose duty it is to learn the languages of the aliens that space exploration discovers, and the non-linguists, who are brainwashed...more
| topics | posts | views | last activity | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| SciFi and Fantasy...: What did you think of Native Tongue | 1 | 25 | Sep 08, 2012 05:44pm |
Suzette Haden Elgin is an American science fiction author. She founded the Science Fiction Poetry Association, and is considered an important figure in the field of science fiction constructed languages. Elgin is also a linguist; she publishes non-fiction, of which the best-known is the Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense series.
Born in 1936 in Missouri, Elgin attended the University of California,...more
More about Suzette Haden Elgin...
Born in 1936 in Missouri, Elgin attended the University of California,...more
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