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Godel, Escher, Bach: Un Eterno y Gracil Bucle = Godel, Escher, Bach
¿Puede un sistema comprenderse a sí mismo ? Si esta pregunta se refiere a la mente humana, entonces nos encontramos ante una cuestión clave del pensamiento científico. Y de la filosofía. Y del arte. Investigar este misterio es una aventura que recorre la matemática, la física, la biología, la psicología y, muy especialmente, el lenguaje. Douglas R. Hofstadter, joven y ya c...more
Paperback, 882 pages
Published
October 12th 2007
by TusQuets
(first published 1979)
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Daniel
rated it
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review of another edition
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review of another edition
Recommends it for:
people who like thinking about thinking about thinking.
If you open up the "20th Anniversary Edition" of GEB, you'll see that the first thing Douglas Hofstadter does in the introduction - the very first thing - is grouse that nobody seems to understand what his book is about. Not even its publishers or readers who just absolutely love it. A quick glance at the back cover will give you the same impression - even the glowing, two-sentence blurbs are hilariously vague, all of them variations on the theme of "Well, that certainly was ......more
from Randall Munroe. Mouseover says: 'This is the reference implementation of the self-referential joke.'
------------------------
I know, I know, I know. I'm just kidding myself. I'm as likely to read this as a book on string theory. (Please don't. Please don't tell me I have read a book on string theory, I'm trying to forget the whole sordid story.) But. I hope you like this.
A friend of mine, Professor John Spiers, http://www.debretts.com/people/biographi......more
Conversation overheard at a diner in Upstate NY between Rabbit and Dante. They have been arguing about the existence of God. Dante has been arguing against the proposition.
Rabbit: I have been recently reading a book which helps me to counter many of your points Dante. You should take a look at it. Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas R. Hofstadter carries within it the seed of an answer to your skepticism. Hofstadter argues, using the pictures of Escher, the music ...more
Rabbit: I have been recently reading a book which helps me to counter many of your points Dante. You should take a look at it. Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas R. Hofstadter carries within it the seed of an answer to your skepticism. Hofstadter argues, using the pictures of Escher, the music ...more
This is a nice book if you want to understand the Gödel incompleteness proof, and get an account that is both accessible and reasonably rigorous. There's a lot of other fun stuff as well, but it's the Gödel proof that's the core of the book, and if that doesn't turn you on then you aren't really going to think GEB is worth the effort.
Personally, I would say that this is one of the most amazing things ever. The more you think about it, the more bizarre it gets... there are mathematic...more
Personally, I would say that this is one of the most amazing things ever. The more you think about it, the more bizarre it gets... there are mathematic...more
GEB is an astonishing achievement in popularizing mathematical philosophy (!), and among the few truly life-changing books I've read.
The central thesis is that under certain conditions sufficiently complex, recursive self-editing systems can develop arbitrarily complex behavior without reference to external organization - and given an author who spends his days coding AI systems, you can see where he's going.
That's dense, dense stuff, but helped by the author's charming...more
The central thesis is that under certain conditions sufficiently complex, recursive self-editing systems can develop arbitrarily complex behavior without reference to external organization - and given an author who spends his days coding AI systems, you can see where he's going.
That's dense, dense stuff, but helped by the author's charming...more
Well, this is not really my sort of thing at all, or at least, not at all the sort of thing I usually read. I more or less stumbled upon it by accident. But then again, maybe it is my sort of thing after all as I have been trying to be more diverse in what I read and sometimes enjoy the infuriating (I'm sure this is due to some combination of my education and my upbringing by a smartass engineer).
So here are some things I think I can say about this book:
It's dense with ...more
So here are some things I think I can say about this book:
It's dense with ...more
Synopsis: Two books, interwoven. The first is a series of comedic dialogues in which characters created by Lewis Carrol engage in friendly battles of wit and skill, or just conversations, each dialogue being modeled after music by Johann Sebastian Bach. The second is a prosaic exploration of the nature of artificial intelligence, self-reference, and free will. The two halves intertwine with eachother and refer to eachother.
This book was made with great care, and is a masterpiec...more
This book was made with great care, and is a masterpiec...more
I can't perform the most basic algebra, so that must be taken to account when reading this review.
I wanted to like this book. In fact, I still do. I don't mind authorial self-indulgence as a rule. I didn't mind feeling ineducable much of the the time (I do). But frankly, I found all the reiteration among the three strips of the braid to be annoying, and despite the apparent need for Hofstadter's conceit in "explaining" recursive mathematics, I couldn't help but finding not ...more
I wanted to like this book. In fact, I still do. I don't mind authorial self-indulgence as a rule. I didn't mind feeling ineducable much of the the time (I do). But frankly, I found all the reiteration among the three strips of the braid to be annoying, and despite the apparent need for Hofstadter's conceit in "explaining" recursive mathematics, I couldn't help but finding not ...more
It's quite impenetrable, but if you can hang in there, you can learn a lot about a lot of seemingly unrelated things. I don't know why mathematicians feel like they have to write like it's 1885. Hofstadter himself encourages you to just open the book at random, read a few pages, skip around, look at the pictures, listen to some Bach, etc, and that certainly helped me get a foothold.
Absolutely beautiful. GEB reads like a collection of sparks, produced when the mind is working at its primed, relaxed, hyper-aware and associative best. I read this over numerous nights, curled up in bed, each time feeling as if I was with a wonderful best friend, with whom I could discuss any topic or previously-unformed idea, exercise my memory indexing resources, and unabashedly release the inner infovore. Few things have allowed me to unwind, concentrate, and harness my mental energy as quic...more
I could not with a clear conscience recommend this book to everyone, because I'm simply not that cruel. It would be like recommending large doses of LSD to everyone: some small minority will find the experience invaluably enlightening, but for most people it's just going to melt their brain.
While you do not need to be a professional mathematician to appreciate this, you really have to like math a lot. You can't just sort of like it. You can't just differ with the masses in not hat...more
While you do not need to be a professional mathematician to appreciate this, you really have to like math a lot. You can't just sort of like it. You can't just differ with the masses in not hat...more
GEB: EGB is basically an exploration of the idea of intelligence, artificial and otherwise. Hofstader's goal is to shed some light on how intelligence / consciousness / self-awareness happens. Hofstader believes that self-awareness -- the "I" -- ultimately arises from recursion. To put it very simply, at the highest levels the brain is a system that deals with symbols, and the "I" is the symbol for the system itself.
There is much, much more to this book. There are lengthy ta...more
There is much, much more to this book. There are lengthy ta...more
Not a review, obviously. A convenient place to keep a succinct index of texts I want to hit in class / seminar.
Introduction
8-10: double function ("double meaning") as canon and impossible figure.
15: emplacement, being "sucked in" -> p.r. and subjectivization in AB, the ethical side.
incompleteness : system :: undecidability : proposition
18: The "difficulty" in writing a SR statement of # theory. T...more
Introduction
8-10: double function ("double meaning") as canon and impossible figure.
15: emplacement, being "sucked in" -> p.r. and subjectivization in AB, the ethical side.
incompleteness : system :: undecidability : proposition
18: The "difficulty" in writing a SR statement of # theory. T...more
Cory
rated it
·
review of another edition
·
review of another edition
Recommends it for:
quasi-mathemeticians, thinkers, logicians, and philosophers
This is an unbelievable book. Arguably one of the most impressive works I've ever read. It is to its topics what Guns, Germs, and Steel is to anthropology. Except not only expertly researched and brilliantly organized, but also incredibly creative and a joy to read.
But what are its topics? This is a book that is impossible to describe briefly. From the title it is ostensibly about M.C. Escher - artist renowned for his strange and contradictory images, Bach - a brilliant musical ...more
But what are its topics? This is a book that is impossible to describe briefly. From the title it is ostensibly about M.C. Escher - artist renowned for his strange and contradictory images, Bach - a brilliant musical ...more
A friend of mine calls this a book for "pretentious teens and people who are too busy reflecting on their own existence to do anything productive" -- with a bit of self-mockery, I'm sure. My early, tentative take on GEB is that it's decidedly unpretentious, almost certainly written to be as accessible as its subject matter will allow. (If anything, it's a little corny at times.) The subject matter is artificial intelligence, a field which I suppose could turn out to be a dead end in...more
L. Marshall
rated it
·
review of another edition
·
review of another edition
Recommends it for:
geeks and perpetual students
Shelves:
non-fiction-and-philo
This is perhaps the best-written book I have ever read. It swings from baroque fugues to programming languages to number theory to Zen Buddhism to artificial intelligence, and doesn't leave you behind. He uses a good deal of graphic illustrations in his discussions, which are pretty welcome in some of the heavier topics. Before each chapter, Hofstadter introduces the new ideas in a distilled version through his own fable-style scenes. He clearly took the time to make it enjoyable for the reader,...more
Rob
rated it
·
review of another edition
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review of another edition
Recommends it for:
deepest of deep geeks
Shelves:
own,
project,
2010,
all-time-favorites,
evolution,
important,
science,
singularity,
artificial-intelligence,
mind-bending
Deep geekery. Let's build logic from its component parts. And then after by-hand fabricating that nomenclature, we'll use it to talk about intelligence, problem-solving, heuristics, etc. building up to general intelligence (generally) and artificial intelligence (specifically). Deep, heavy, at times extremely fun. Took me five years to read it.
And so somewhat in the spirit of the text:
GEB is like this incredibly attractive, incredibly smart, incredibly funny/witty wom...more
And so somewhat in the spirit of the text:
GEB is like this incredibly attractive, incredibly smart, incredibly funny/witty wom...more
My fascination with the concepts entertained in this book long predates the moment I discovered its existence. The moment I ordered it followed really soon, and now that I hold it in my hands the two days I had to wait seem like a distant memory, much like the ones from car crashes or injuries - your brain kind of makes these dimmer to spare you recalling the unpleasant experience every now and then.
It was no later than the second chapter that I realized how much time I've spending cli...more
It was no later than the second chapter that I realized how much time I've spending cli...more
This book told me something about intelligence - the smartest thing to do is to avoid this book's overly lengthy babblings of a self-important graduate student who is way too impressed with himself. It took this guy over 700 pages to illustrate by analogy his not-particularly novel theory which he sums up (finally) as follows:
"My belief is that the explanations of 'emergent' phenomena in our brains --for instance, ideas, hopes, images, analogies, and finally consciousness and f...more
"My belief is that the explanations of 'emergent' phenomena in our brains --for instance, ideas, hopes, images, analogies, and finally consciousness and f...more
Wonderfully inventive at times, Godel, Escher, Bach is a majestic feat in bringing abstract science down to an understandable and even enjoyable level. Hofstadter uses lucid prose to explain such complicated (and often dry) issues as formal systems, computer programming, and metamathematics. The dialogues are hilarious, witty, and genius.
If I have one complaint about this books, it's that the proportions are wrong. As it stands, 20% dialogue to 80% essay is too heavy on the explanatory...more
If I have one complaint about this books, it's that the proportions are wrong. As it stands, 20% dialogue to 80% essay is too heavy on the explanatory...more
Nel 1979 usciva questa imponente opera divulgativa, che nel corso degli anni ha fatto conoscere a moltissime persone le meraviglie della mente umana. Un'opera complessa ma allo stesso tempo scritta in modo da esporre i temi nella maniera più semplice possibile. Temi molto profondi, che toccano l'essenza stessa dell'essere umano e vanno incontro a domande fondamentali quali "Che cos'è l'intelligenza?", "Come funziona la mente umana?" o "Cosa possiamo conoscere?". A q...more
This book took me over 6 months to read. Not because I'm a slow reader, but because this book warrents that kind of time and devotion. I found my self going back and re-reading sections, sometimes whole chapters. The book builds on itself, making it nesissary to understand and absorb all the material fully before moving on.
That being said, Hofstadter is such a good writer and teacher, and has such a good understanding of just how difficult the subject matter in GEB is, that the book...more
That being said, Hofstadter is such a good writer and teacher, and has such a good understanding of just how difficult the subject matter in GEB is, that the book...more
This book offers substantial insight into formal systems and gives an overview of how they have manifested themselves in various disciplines in Western history. The reason I am still reading it is that it is pretty long. I find myself constantly wondering if it could have been shortened.
One issue I am having is that the approach doesn't work as well for art as it does for music and mathematics. I don't think Escher will ever have the status in art history that Bach did in music a...more
One issue I am having is that the approach doesn't work as well for art as it does for music and mathematics. I don't think Escher will ever have the status in art history that Bach did in music a...more
Absolutely beautiful. GEB reads like a collection of sparks, produced when the mind is working at its primed, relaxed, hyper-aware and associative best. I read this over numerous nights, curled up in bed, each time feeling as if I was with a wonderful best friend, with whom I could discuss any topic or previously-unformed idea, exercise my memory indexing resources, and unabashedly release the inner infovore. Few things have allowed me to unwind, concentrate, and harness my mental energy as quic...more
In a way, this book is a lark. That isn't what you might expect of a 742-page text (plus notes and bibliography) that deals with music, mathematics, and machine intelligence. It's the tone of Douglas Hofstadter's writing--or should I say the tenor of his mind?--that keeps his book from seeming like work. His basic tactic, though he seldom says it so flatly, is to keep asking "What would happen if…?" and then to carefully explore where the thought might take us. While that tactic repres...more
It took a while to read because I wanted to savor the experience.
It became apparent to me after only about three chapters that this is a book that would stay with me. And now that I've finished the entire thing, I am only further convinced of this.
The book was arranged differently than most books I've ever read. Each chapter is prefaced by what Hofstadter calls "Dialogues." These dialogues are based on Lewis Carroll's dialogue between Achilles and the Tortoise, ...more
It became apparent to me after only about three chapters that this is a book that would stay with me. And now that I've finished the entire thing, I am only further convinced of this.
The book was arranged differently than most books I've ever read. Each chapter is prefaced by what Hofstadter calls "Dialogues." These dialogues are based on Lewis Carroll's dialogue between Achilles and the Tortoise, ...more
Jamie Kruger
rated it
·
review of another edition
·
review of another edition
Recommends it for:
people who enjoy thinking about thinking and the intersection of math, art, music, and philosophy
A very dense book that still manages to have a sense of whimsy and humor. Best absorbed in chunks and then read again at a later date. And then yet again. You will certainly have your share of "homework" to do to get the most out of GEB.
At the risk of sounding snobbish, I have to wonder how accessible GEB is to those, even readers of other books on philosophy, who do not have at least some grounding in the diverse subject matter. While Hofstadter's enthusiasm for the materi...more
At the risk of sounding snobbish, I have to wonder how accessible GEB is to those, even readers of other books on philosophy, who do not have at least some grounding in the diverse subject matter. While Hofstadter's enthusiasm for the materi...more
I think it's fair to say that this is a mammoth and dense book. 700 odd pages of textbook size make the length alone intimidating, and the subject matter can be quite challenging and very technical at times. Bed time reading this is not, though I did fall asleep several times when trying to complete this book.
Though I'm not really doing it justice so far; I did enjoy reading it. There were moments that were funny, moments that were mind-blowing, some that caused furrowed brows, confu...more
Though I'm not really doing it justice so far; I did enjoy reading it. There were moments that were funny, moments that were mind-blowing, some that caused furrowed brows, confu...more
Having just completed Gödel, Escher, Bach (or GEB) thirty years after it was originally published, I am astonished at how well it has aged. I am not in the least surprised, however, that the book remains widely misunderstood, particularly among those who sing its praise. In a sense, it having won the Pulitzer is a prime example of a monumental work winning for the wrong reasons.
What every reader can agree on is that GEB is tremendously clever. Despite being nominally a work of "...more
What every reader can agree on is that GEB is tremendously clever. Despite being nominally a work of "...more
This isn't for everyone, but you get some serious nerd credibility for reading this I think. I really enjoyed the first half and would have given that five stars, but the second half seems to me to beat the reader over the head with its point. The book covers a lot of topics in science and math, often with analogies using fugues, Escher's art, and Hofstadter's own dialogues (which are an entertaining supplement to the main text).
Hofstadter suggests that "strange loops" or...more
Hofstadter suggests that "strange loops" or...more
| topics | posts | views | last activity | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| r/Literature: Reading club: Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas Hofstadter | 1 | 10 | Jan 21, 2012 02:15pm | |
| My thoughts on Godel, Escher, Bach.. | 6 | 164 | Jun 25, 2011 02:08pm |
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Douglas Richard Hofstadter is an American academic whose research focuses on consciousness, thinking and creativity. He is best known for his book Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid, first published in 1979, for which he was awarded the 1980 Pulitzer Prize for general non-fiction.
Hofstadter is the son of Nobel Prize-winning physicist Robert Hofstadter. Douglas grew up on the ...more
More about Douglas R. Hofstadter...
Hofstadter is the son of Nobel Prize-winning physicist Robert Hofstadter. Douglas grew up on the ...more
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“Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.
”
—
10 people liked it
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.
”
“How gullible are you? Is your gullibility located in some "gullibility center" in your brain? Could a neurosurgeon reach in and perform some delicate operation to lower your gullibility, otherwise leaving you alone? If you believe this, you are pretty gullible, and should perhaps consider such an operation.”
—
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Thanks for sharing !!
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Dec 26, 2010 07:34am