Quando Nietzsche Chorou

by Irvin D. Yalom

Quando Nietzsche Chorou

book data

628 ratings, 3.94 average rating, 85 reviews (more data...)

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published

August 1st 2003 by Editora Ediouro

binding

Paperback

isbn

8500007958 (isbn13: 9788500007958)

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All ratings | 5 stars (205) | 4 stars (220) | 3 stars (132) | 2 stars (44) | 1 star (13) | avg 3.94

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khashayar

khashayar rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

04/04/07

Too much fiction, too little philosophy. Ironically, somewhere in the book Nietzsche abhors the idea of reading the recast philosophy. That's why he learned Greek. Drinking from the source spring rather than the still water in the carafe, he learned to read the firsthand writings and then the philologer became a philosopher. Keeping this point in your mind, imagine if you can learn Nietzsche's philosophy by reading merely the excerpts of his early works quoted now and then in the text.

Even s...more

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Robert

Robert rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

04/24/07

Beach reading for the brainy set. Keeping in mind that this is one of Yalom’s “teaching novels,” envisioned not to entertain, or even to achieve artistically, but to serve as a type of literary experiential learning tool for therapists and therapists-to-be, really helps with tolerating the expository nature of much of the book. Also, Yalom’s nerdy and passionate enthusiasm is infectious, and if one surrenders to it, it allows the reader to join in with the fun he clearly was having wri...more

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Connie

Connie rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

07/19/07

In this amazing novel Yalom blends philosophy, psychoanalysis and history and imagines what would have happened had Nietzsche gone into therapy with Breuer. The plot thrives on the tensions that arise between Nietzsche's nihilistic philosophy and Freud's belief in the fundamental role of relationships on human life and development. This book is an emotional and intellectual tour de force and brings to life two of the most magnificent thinkers of the 20th century. Yalom at his best!

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2 comments

Maria

Maria rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

11/10/08

Read in November, 2008

recommends it for: Anyone interested in philosophy/psychology

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here.

Irvin Yalom is an Existentialist psychotherapist and I have read quite a few of his books. He writes about therapy in an interesting and accessible way which I enjoy, perhaps this book was one too many for me as the message is essentially the same, hence the three stars.

Yalom bangs on again, in novel format this time, about how as humans we struggle with fears of ageing and death. He weaves existents concerns artfully into the novel, using real historical figures engaged in a fictionalised ...more Irvin Yalom is an Existentialist psychotherapist and I have read quite a few of his books. He writes about therapy in an interesting and accessible way which I enjoy, perhaps this book was one too many for me as the message is essentially the same, hence the three stars.

Yalom bangs on again, in novel format this time, about how as humans we struggle with fears of ageing and death. He weaves existents concerns artfully into the novel, using real historical figures engaged in a fictionalised relationship.

The story is set in Vienna at the end of the 19th century, the two main characters are Dr Joseph Breuer, forefather to psychoanalysis, and philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. Breuer is enticed into surreptitiously helping Nietzsche, using his latest discoveries in talking therapy, by a mysterious Russian lady, Lou Slamone. Lou Salmone is a modern woman, she is educated and lives her life free from the shackles of convention and rejects the idea of marriage. Her brief and chaste affair with Nietzsche has ended badly, leaving Nietzsche feeling betrayed and suicidal. She insists Breuer must help him, the only obstacle is Nietzsche must never know he is being helped.

Freud also appears in the novel as Breuers young medical researcher friend and mentee, Freud is talented but unsure what path is medical career will take. They discuss medicine and Breuers discoveries in talking therapies, which fascinates the young Freud. Freud also has a growing interest in a very new idea, the unconscious mind.

Nietzsche is an aloof character, he is emotionally guarded and lives a lonely existence with ever increasing crippling health problems. He and Breuer are very different characters, Nietzsche is formal, harsh and withdrawn, Breuer is open, empathic and has a strong sense of duty to care for others.

Breuers work with a young and beautiful patient suffering from hysteria, Anna O, has lead to an obsession that he cannot rid himself of. This obsession is threatening his marriage and causing him great anxiety. Breuer uses these problems as part of a bigger plan, to get Nietzsche to agree to residential treatment at a clinic by proposing an unusual deal. Nietzsche should use his philosophical skills to help Breuer overcome this obsession, in return Breuer will monitor Nietzsche physical health at the clinic and help him resolve his health problems, in particular his crippling migraines. Breuer hopes to use this relationship as a way to engage Nietzsche and get him to open up concerning his own anxieties and despair.

As their relationships develops roles are reversed and a strange mutual healing occurs in a way that neither had anticipated.

The book is well written, entertaining, and historically engaging, especially because the characters are real, only the relationship is fictionalised. Even the letters featured are often real, letters Nietzsche himself wrote. I think I found it less inspiring because I knew the track he was going down too well, same old message delivered in a different way. However if you have not read any of Irvin Yalom’s books before, this one is an easy read and very entertaining.

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Arezo....

Arezo.... rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

09/16/08

اين كتاب خيالي در جواني فرويد رخ مي دهد، وقتي او بيست و شش ساله است. دكتر بروير، استاد و دوست نزديك به فرويد، يكي از معروف ترين اساتيد و پزشكان در سرتاسر اروپا است. البته او را در آينده براي كشف هايش در علم پزشكي هم به ياد خواهند آورد
داستان در ايتاليا آغاز مي گردد، جايي كه دختري...more

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Suzy

Suzy rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

07/17/08

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here.

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Ilya

Ilya rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

07/10/08

Read in July, 2008

recommended to Ilya by: My Mother
recommends it for: Wold, TC, Rich Magee. Possibly McKenzie, Liza and Bryan

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here.

On one hand this book is totally brilliant, and hits the psyche hard, on the other hand, it's kind of stale and there is no good “story” per se in the conventional plot sense. Yalom gets poor marks for readability but high marks for sheer brilliance, discourse, and tackling the big questions.

“Readability”: The pace and setup of the “plot” and characters just goes on and on. Really could have been a lot shorter. The first, say, 4/5ths of the book are boring, but unfortunatel...more On one hand this book is totally brilliant, and hits the psyche hard, on the other hand, it's kind of stale and there is no good “story” per se in the conventional plot sense. Yalom gets poor marks for readability but high marks for sheer brilliance, discourse, and tackling the big questions.

“Readability”: The pace and setup of the “plot” and characters just goes on and on. Really could have been a lot shorter. The first, say, 4/5ths of the book are boring, but unfortunately necessary to understand the rest.

Brilliance: The action starts in Chapters 19 and 20. The end of Chapter 20 and most of 21 are really intense, magnificent even.

Audience: I can’t help but think this was written mostly for men. There are the universal issues of fulfillment in career and life, parental influence on offspring, but much of the angst expressed (and explored) by the central characters is from a man’s perspective. Given that this is based in 19th century Vienna… not that surprising I suppose. Yalom touches on a woman’s plight very briefly towards the end.

Overall: Most of the book is a conversation between a “fictional” Nietzsche and the Viennese doctor. To this end, I wish I had a better understanding of Nietzsche’s core philosophy before reading this, and perhaps even a touch of background in psychotherapy. After all, Yalom is all about “existential psychotherapy” and this appears to be a dive right into it. I’d be curious to know how much of the book is Yalom’s interpretation vs. citation vs. original material.

All in all, as you may have guessed, a very thoughtful piece. Not empty waxing or academic “flexing”- truly a serious and powerful inquiry. Rather, I should say, parts of it are very powerful. See “Readability”.

This is a good little excerpt that doesn’t give away the book or ending:

“So, Josef, once again I say, let this thought take possession of you (thought of every action existing forever in the moment). Now I have a question for you: Do you hate the idea? Or do you love it?”

“I hate it!” Breuer almost shouted. “To live forever with the sense that I have not lived, have not tasted freedom- the idea fills me with horror.”

“Then,” Nietzsche exhorted, “live in such a way that you love the idea!”

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Abailart

Abailart rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

03/06/08

bookshelves: fiction

Read in February, 2008

I was introduced to Yalom by recommendation to read both his fiction and writings on psychotherapy. He was new to me, but when I heard he was a student of Roll May, I looked forward to becoming familiar with him. Before I could quite afford a copy of the novel, I bought it, started reading it in a coffee shop across the road from the bookshop, and left an hour later. I read it in a week, sometimes while waiting at bus stops. Half way through I got hold of Love's Executioner, a record of ten of h...more

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Jamie

Jamie rated it:

(review of isbn 0140236619)

11/10/07

bookshelves: top-20

On the surface "When Nietzsche Wept" is an excellent work of fiction with a riveting storyline. At the same time, it's some really good philosophy interpretted for us by a brilliant psychoanalyst, who clearly has a taste for Nietzsche, and seeks to help us see HIS version of Nietzsche.

Yalom uses Nietzsche's hypothetical meetings with a Dr. Breuer to play out his version of Nietzsche's philosophies. By doing so, he allows HIS OWN thoughts to be bounced off of Nietzsche, so what we s...more

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Stefani

Stefani rated it:

(review of isbn 0140236619)

07/03/07

bookshelves: favorites

Read in January, 1999

Viennese Dr. Josef Breuer is hired by Lou Salome to cure Friedrich Nietzsche of his obsession with her -- and psychoanalysis is born. This is a wonderful novel bringing together ideas from psychoanalysis and Nietzsche's philosophy to illuminate the nature and roots of obsession -- because Breuer himself finds himself ensnared by his memories of a beuatiful patient, "Anna O."...
The reader obviously has to suspend disbelief to allow this most unlikely relationship between dotctor and ...more

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Capitu

Capitu rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

01/25/08

bookshelves: 2007

Read in September, 2007

The premise of this book is truly interesting, but I felt that the author manipulated certain parts to "make it all fit". Yet, I did like certain aspects of it. I am drawn to historical figures, and have always had a fascination with psychoanalyzes, so I enjoyed the characters as the young and insecure Freud, the humanized Nietzsche - none less dysfunctional then as I portrait him, but more accessible as a human being - or yet, Lou Salome's manipulations of the men around her. I was al...more

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Stephanie

Stephanie rated it:

(review of isbn 0140236619)

05/12/07

bookshelves: fiction

Read in May, 2007

This is such a great book in so many ways. One idea that was really monumental for me was the concept of choices in one's life and that we have the abliity to accept the choices we have made and be happy with them. Our life does not just happen to us, be we can truly in control of the choices we make and how we deal with them. I like the quote " To live safely, is to live dangerously". It means to me, not to be afraid to take what you really want and have passion for. Breuer deals wi...more

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Sasha

Sasha rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

11/25/08

I enjoyed this book immensely. If you are a fan of Freud or Nietzsche, or both, then you might love this fictional meeting of the minds. Nietzsche becomes one of Freud's first patients as he develops his theory of psychoanalysis. If you are unfamiliar with either Freud and Nietzsche, you might not find this book as compelling.

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Letitia Harmon

Letitia rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

08/31/08

Has a copy to sell/swap

What sparked my interest in this novel was that I believed the title to reference his late-life episode in which he protected a beaten horse, but the timeline of this work long precedes that, and is altogether different in nature. Neither compelling nor active, this reads like the records of an experimental psycho-analysis session, which is in essence what it is chronicling. Yalom's attempts to authenticate the nineteenth century Vienna setting are often awkward and contrived, stopping the flow ...more

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Louise

Louise added it (review of isbn 0060748125)

11/24/08

This book, aside from any literary merits, should prove fascinating to readers interested in psychoanalysis, dreams, or focusing. Though a bigger IDEA than it is a novel, Yalom's book is nonetheless riveting. The hypothetical meeting between Freud's co-author (Studies on Hysteria), Josef Breuer, and Friedrich Neitzsche, while stretching credibility, keeps us engrossed by the sense that we are eavesdropping on an awkward, personal intimacy. While I doubt that Breuer was quite so moral, or ...more

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Jessica

Jessica rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

09/28/07

Read in January, 2007

The idea for this book is good, but it was not great execution. The dialogue, especially between Breuer and Freud, is incredibly wooden. Trying to make Nietzsche a sympathetic character is sort of a waste of time and too much of the novel is devoted to that task. I think he would have hated this book passionately. But I think it is always interesting to speculate what would have developed if certain historical figures had met. The intersection of Breuer's psychology and Nietzsche's philosophy (h...more

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Mandy

Mandy added it (review of isbn 0060748125)

11/22/08

One of the best books I have ever read.

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Paula

Paula rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

03/31/08

Read in April, 2008

recommends it for: anyone who has suffered sadness or questions their place in the universe.

This book is a must-read for anyone who has suffered from Dispar or Angst at any time in their lives. The first 180 pages are a charming novel (any book that refers to Freud as "Sigi" has got something going for it). Then on page 180, the book became something greater. I had to get up and get a pencil to underline passages, lines, quotations, etc. that stirred me. Not more than one page goes by without my underlining.

I can't wait to see how it ends, but I'm enjoying it too much...more

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Peacefully

Peacefully rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

09/02/08

Read in January, 2008

Wow! This book was great! It was an exhausting read because of all the thinking it demanded; I found myself regularly putting it down after only 30 or 60 minutes because I needed a break to digest what I had just read it. It may be a completely fictional account, but it was certainly thought provoking and interesting. I have no idea how accurately Nietzsche's ideas were protrayed, but I loved it! I thought it was very similar to Ishmael.

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Paul

Paul rated it:

(review of isbn 0060748125)

10/01/07

bookshelves: psychologicalwriting

Has a copy to sell/swap — Read in September, 2007

recommends it for: those interested in psychology or history of existential philosphy

Please read my other Yalom reviews first. This one was also very good, felt I was back in the days of young Freud, middle age Nietzche and Breuer struggling with the meaning of life, psychopathology, psychotherapy's beginnings. It was a good introduction to some of Nietzche too.. and I think it was a nice read, and very thought-provoking. Thanks, Rocky and Renee for getting me to finally read Yalom. Definately worth it.

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