Carnage & Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise to Western Power

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Carnage & Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise to Western Power

by Victor Davis Hanson

4.18 · rating details · 394 ratings · 48 reviews

Examining nine landmark battles from ancient to modern times--from Salamis, where outnumbered Greeks devastated the slave army of Xerxes, to Cortes’s conquest of Mexico to the Tet offensive--Victor Davis Hanson explains why the armies of the West have been the most lethal and effective of any fighting forces in the world.

Looking beyond popular explanations such as geograph...more

Paperback, 544 pages

Published December 18th 2007 by Anchor (first published 2001)

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Jul 27, 2008

R. rated it

Shelves: western-history-and-philosophy, military-history

Brave indeed is the academic prepared to take on the cultural relativists in todays academy, but Hanson, like the Westerner he is, suits up here for a massive ground assault straight up the gut. He will surely piss off the fashionably PC crowd who have been reared to despise just about anything Western simply with his first chapter heading, 'Why the West Won.' Based upon his observation that for over 2500 years, the chief military worry of Westerner armies has been other Western armies, Hanson ...more

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Sep 13, 2007

Gavin rated it

Recommends it for: warriors

Shelves: war

Written as a rebuttal of Mr Jared Diamond's book Guns, germs and Steel. Mr. Hanson is trained as a Classicist, though he only started academic work after his Californian raisin farm failed. It is well written. Diamond's (I have not read it) thesis is that cultures become superior through accidental circumstances like, Europe and Asia being mostly along similar latitudes, so farming tech can be transferred East-West, but because the Americas are not, it is harder to transfer tech North-South b...more

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Aug 06, 2011

Jack Wang added it

Shelves: history, politics-and-social-thought

Hanson argues for a distinct western strategic culture through the retelling of 9 historical battles. The Greek naval victory against Persia at Salamis demonstrates the efficacy of "free" soldiers against "slave" eastern soldiers, Alexander's victory against the Achaemenids at Gaugamela demonstrates a Western preference for decisive battle, the Roman recovery after the defeat to Hannibal at Cannae shows the unique resilience of a Western army of citizen soldiers, Charles Mart...moreHanson argues for a distinct western strategic culture through the retelling of 9 historical battles. The Greek naval victory against Persia at Salamis demonstrates the efficacy of "free" soldiers against "slave" eastern soldiers, Alexander's victory against the Achaemenids at Gaugamela demonstrates a Western preference for decisive battle, the Roman recovery after the defeat to Hannibal at Cannae shows the unique resilience of a Western army of citizen soldiers, Charles Martel's stand against the Saracens at Poitiers shows the potency of the western tradition of heavily-armored ground infantry, Cortes' conquest of Mexico is told as a victory of Western emphasis on reason, empirics, and capacity for innovation, the British stand against Zulu warriors at Rorke's Drift demonstrates the superiority of western discipline in battle, Midway shows the value of individualism and flexible decision-making in battle, and American engagement in Vietnam as demonstration of a western tradition of self-critque that in the long run makes for a more dynamic and innovative fighting force. Although well-written, the limited anecdotal nature of this book makes an ultimately unpersuasive case for a very ambitious case. Hanson's argument would have benefited from a section on the historical and intellectual continuity of the "western traditions" described. I remain skeptical on how robust a superior western culture of war really is. Is discipline of formation and tactics really unique to Hellenic origins? Does not the greater efficacy of Roman forces under Authoritarian Imperial rule than under Republican guidance undermine the supposed martial virtues of democracy, freedom, and individualism? Did not Attila and Ghengis Khan, who are well outside the Hellenic western traditions utterly devastate European defenses? And given the periods of great stability, prosperity, and peace in Persia, China, and other "eastern" regimes, there seems to be a case to be made that if the Western tradition is better at war, the Easter tradition seems to be better at peace.(less)

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Jul 25, 2011

Justin rated it

This book is drivel, plain and simple. Hanson selects nine battles from history and pairs them with what he imagines to be the characteristics of Western civilization that, when combined in a test tube, have proved to be an elixir of invincibility, carrying the world before them.

The Greeks defeated the Persians in 480 B.C. The lesson? A free citizenry was decisive in the conflict. Unfortunately, the slave laborers and women who were considered little more than property and who underp...moreThis book is drivel, plain and simple. Hanson selects nine battles from history and pairs them with what he imagines to be the characteristics of Western civilization that, when combined in a test tube, have proved to be an elixir of invincibility, carrying the world before them.

The Greeks defeated the Persians in 480 B.C. The lesson? A free citizenry was decisive in the conflict. Unfortunately, the slave laborers and women who were considered little more than property and who underpinned the ancient Greek economy would probably beg to differ with Hanson's definition of "free". Perhaps he only had men in mind?

Hanson's choice of battles is quite arbitrary, and, echoing the Downing Street Memos, he has selected the facts to fit his thesis. If Alexander's victory at Gaugamela illustrates the West's penchant for annihilation, and Charles Martel's victory at Tours shows the superiority of the West's traditional dependence on fortified infantry, what of the obliteration of nearly the entire Roman army by an all-cavalry force at Adrianople in 378?

Perhaps the Goths who destroyed Valens and his army were not Eastern enough for Hanson's thesis. How about the Huns in the fifth century? What of the Mongol empire of the 13th century (rulers of the largest land empire the world has known)? Genghis Khan's troops were all cavalry, they were not capitalists, they were very low-tech, not concerned with reason or philosophical discourse--in short, they were lacking just about all of the classically liberal virtues that Mr. Hanson seems to think essential for conquest. Of course, they possessed a knack for annihilation and great discipline, but then, hasn't every great army throughout history had those same qualities?

Hanson's use of the Battles of Rorke's Drift (1879) and Tenochtitlan (1521) as examples of Western superiority is particularly illuminating. When a relatively technologically advanced civilization comes into contact with spear-throwing primitives with no biological immunity to say, smallpox, is that really evidence of the inherent superiority of Western civilization, or merely circumstances working out in our favor?

The fact that no civilization, Western or otherwise, has been able to truly subdue China (without itself being assimilated by the Chinese), which hasn't (and doesn't) possess many of Mr. Hanson's proposed Western virtues, seems to argue against his thesis. The fact that the coming centuries will likely be Sino-centric merits understanding and an explanation, one that Mr. Hanson is politically incapable of delivering, but that Mr. Darwin's thinking anticipated long ago.(less)

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Jan 10, 2009

Mike Angelillo rated it

It seems fashionable to place this book as a counterpoint to Guns, Germs and Steel. In fact, the author seems to want it viewed that way and talks briefly at the end about his debate with Jared Diamond.

This need by the author to stake out this position, as opposed to providing perspective on the argument, is what kept it from being a better book in my opinion.

First, the books are really looking at two separate issues which intersect. Second, even Hanson can't fail to me...more

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Sep 27, 2008

Old-Barbarossa rated it

· review of another edition

Interesting in bits but I'm not sure about the conclusions he draws.
Based on a western idea of "victory" though he's right, unfortunately as Afraqistan is showing not everyone plays by the same rules.

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Feb 08, 2010

Dave rated it

Hanson's thesis as to why western style armies are so deadly and effective (note - not necessarily more moral - Hanson is careful to stress this point) is superbly defended. I especially liked the Midway and Salamis chapters.

All of his examples, however, are for conventional wars, traditional battles (perhaps his Cortes section is an exception). For his Vietnam chapter he seems to blame the press, a conclusion with which I almost completely disagree. I would love a follow up volum...more

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Nov 20, 2009

Christopher rated it

Shelves: history

This was a very thought-provoking book. At first, I was expecting more of a historical survey "12 Greatest Battles of World History" and there was an homage to those sorts of volumes dating back to Gibbon and beyond.

Instead, this book is a rebuttal to Jared Diamond's Guns Germs and Steel and the larger geographical argument to historical analysis. Hanson's thesis is that a collection of complimentary memes (though he never uses the term)in military, political, and economi...moreThis was a very thought-provoking book. At first, I was expecting more of a historical survey "12 Greatest Battles of World History" and there was an homage to those sorts of volumes dating back to Gibbon and beyond.

Instead, this book is a rebuttal to Jared Diamond's Guns Germs and Steel and the larger geographical argument to historical analysis. Hanson's thesis is that a collection of complimentary memes (though he never uses the term)in military, political, and economic practice that together comprise "Western Culture" arose in the Greek city-states in about the 5th Century B.C. and that this culture is directly responsible for creating more effective militaries in states that followed these tenets, especially over states that did not subscribe to these ideas.

The author is very careful to make it clear that a 'superior' military does not mean that Western culture is morally superior. The fact that Western armies can conquer non-western civilizations doesn't mean they should - that question is conveniently not within the area he's looking at. Hanson also makes it clear (though a little less often) that the 'superiority' of Western arms is not due to biology, race, or religion.

I feel a bit like Hanson has missed his mark in targeting Diamond's thesis. Diamond is getting back into root causes that are deeper than the Western culture that Hanson extols. Could the combination of forces that created the Greek city-states have existed anywhere else? If so, why didn't these memes arise there independently of Greece? If not, then why not? These are variations on the questions that Diamond addresses - and Hanson ignores them. Instead, we have one creation of a superior Western culture and all other cultures, whether Islamic, Persian, African, Asian, or Mesoamerican, are lumped under "non-Western" (with occasional division between 'tribal' and 'imperial' - both seen as equally stifling and inefficient).

Hanson's analysis is very interesting and thought provoking. But at the end of the day, it feels like window-dressing on the same Victorian social-Darwinist pap that gave the world the White Man's Burden and Manifest Destiny. If you're going to propose an alternative to Diamond's geographic thesis for the creation of civilization, I'd like to see something more falsifiable - something that I could imagine running history again and again as an experiment to see how the world would be different.

Instead of the evolution of culture and civilization, I feel like Hanson sees a divine hand in the gift of Western culture to the Greeks and their cultural descendants while all others must suffer since they are not among the chosen.(less)

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Mar 07, 2011

Kevin Comer rated it

VDH clearly knows his military history. However, I could not shake the feeling as I was reading that he developed his conclusions first and then went through military history to find examples to prove his case. His reasoning and logic is sound as a descriptive view of the Western Way of War. I'm not convinced his thesis can provide the predictive analysis he tries to force from the basic premise, as in "this is why the Western Way of War has worked in the past, and therefore this is why it ...more

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May 23, 2010

Mark rated it

Shelves: military

Hanson hits a homerun here!

His premise that all cultures are not created equal is startling considering the orthodox "I'm OK, you're OK" line on comparative cultural thinking these days. I think reading this book marked a milepost for me in that it helped convince me that I'm not exactly on board with the multiculturist point of view that all cultures are more or less equal. While I love to consider diverse cultural viewpoints and I love the celebration of many cultures f...more

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Jul 31, 2008

Kaan rated it

Recommends it for: everyone who thinks the West is the greatest

Like all proper historians of war, Hanson never spares the reader the horrible gore, pain, and loss from combat. Indeed, I believe war historians, like Stephen Ambrose, have a duty to convey the experience of war such that the regular civilian will never see--that there may be no illusions about what war actually does. It spills the blood of the innocents and combatants alike; it maims countless others; it leads to rape, famine, and disease; it stimulates the economy, but only until it evapora...moreLike all proper historians of war, Hanson never spares the reader the horrible gore, pain, and loss from combat. Indeed, I believe war historians, like Stephen Ambrose, have a duty to convey the experience of war such that the regular civilian will never see--that there may be no illusions about what war actually does. It spills the blood of the innocents and combatants alike; it maims countless others; it leads to rape, famine, and disease; it stimulates the economy, but only until it evaporates the government. Hanson is suitably emphatic, furthermore, on just how much worse the West has made this carnage, how much better at it it has been--starting with the Groovy Greeks. And he's very meticulous.

The reason I have not given this book 5 stars, however, is because I think the book could have gone a little farther condemning the bloodthirsty West. When my class read this, there was a tendency to view the successes this book chronicles as proof of Western moral superiority. I hate to point out that an incredible ability to kill on a large scale is not something to be proud of. The book does point out that men who climbed into a WWII fighter felt entitled to gun down scrambling Japanese infantry on the ground; these men felt that if the Japanese could have made better weapons, they would have, and since they obviously didn't, they should bow down to, or die in the face of, their Western greatness. I could tell that a lot of the male students in my class felt this way, too, without thinking. I would have wanted Hanson to talk about how this might coincide with problematic hegemonic male identity, or relate to America's profound problem with rape and men's violence against women. Alas, Hanson is a historian, and for some reason he didn't feel like combining forces with some of the intellectual males working to re-vamp the military's policies on sexism and other moral violence.

I guess my true disappointment with the book is seeing all the evidence that a culture (or group of related cultures) needs a lot of work; the West's ability and history in war tells us so much about its values and its terrible departures from rationality, humanity, and sanity. So everyone should read this, but they should read it knowing that war oppresses us, both men and women in the usual complimentary ways, and should be avoided at all costs.(less)

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Mar 18, 2008

Robert Hund rated it

Argument why western values have triumphed. His explanation is its all because of property ownership and a free society. The term "free" may be stretching it a bit. The occasions used to prove the author's theory stretch from the naval victory of the Greeks at Salamis (480BC), through Gaugamela (331BC) Alexander, Cannae - Rome defeated by Hannibal 216BC, Poitiers 732AD Charles Martel, Tenochitian 1521 Cortex, Lepanto 1571, Rorke's Drife 1879, Midway 1942, to the Tet Offensive 1968. ...more

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Dec 31, 2008

Kevin rated it

Shelves: military-history

Hanson is desperately trying to prove that his thesis on the Western Way of War has continuity over 2500 years. He picks battles that on the surface seem to support his theory, but he is really is picking battles that are more the exception than the rule for most of the periods he covers. The book is well written but extremely biased in its presentation; interesting theory though.

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Mar 01, 2010

Phil Ammar rated it

Oh VDH! You rock man. This book uses famous battles from throughout history to show how certain attributes have made western power nearly unstoppable. Its not just technological advantages, but also the emphasis on having field commanders able to make their own decisions, flexibility, etc.

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Sep 20, 2008

Al rated it

The best way to describe this book is to quote from the back of the book: "Examining nine landmark battles from ancient to modern times.....Hanson explains why the armies of the West have been the most lethal and effective of any fighting forces in the world...... Hanson argues that is in fact Western culture and values -- the tradition of dissent, the importance placed on inventiveness and adaptation, the concept of citizenship -- which have consistently produced superior arms an...more

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Aug 05, 2011

Urey Patrick added it

Shelves: history-military, military-general

Another superb work by VDH - he and John Keegan are the "must read " authors of military historians. Provocative, and I think credible, thesis as to the direct relationship between freedom and ultimate battlefield supremacy.

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Mar 29, 2011

Bob rated it

Recommends it for: anthropologists, sociologists, and history buffs

Recommended to Bob by: NY Times Book Review

The author's thesis is that our Western liberal tradition advances only through brutal competition in the crucible of war. He traces the evolution of warfare through 9 historic battles, and in so doing demonstrates the evolution of human societies.

The book shows that while the "good guys" don't always win, the evolutionary edge always goes to the society that enables and empowers individuals.

Whether you realize it or not, the daily freedoms and attitudes we take for...more

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Jul 26, 2011

Ronald rated it

The perfect antidote to the "war is bad" mantra and the "all cultures are equal" crowd. A beautiful blend of history, politics, and military science.

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Aug 02, 2010

Nan rated it

I'm not qualified to analyze this book, though I found the accounts of these battles that support the author's thesis to be very interesting, esp Salamis and Lepanto.

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Dec 22, 2008

Gordon Hill rated it

This book is heavy on details, but a great read. You will almost certainly learn some interesting things about some amazing battles.

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Dec 16, 2009

Owen rated it

A precise rebuttal to Guns Germs and Steel. One of the three books I tell people to read that will reshape their worldview.

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Feb 21, 2009

Chris rated it

This guy is my favorite author on western civilization. Read anything by Hanson and your safe

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Oct 19, 2010

Timothy Fitzgerald rated it

I really enjoyed the historical detail in the book. I'm not sure Hanson did a great job of convincing me that his overall thesis is true. He attempts to prove that the establishment of democracy and citizenship are the driving forces behind Western Culture prevailing throughout history. He openly challenges the concept of environmental determinism, I'm not sure that he was sufficiently thorough in his attempt to do so.
I would recommend this book to anyone who has read Guns Germs and Stee...more

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Nov 14, 2009

Griff Thompson rated it

Discussion of impact of culture on success in battle - finished through p 303

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Mar 17, 2009

Steve Luttrell rated it

Major lesson: the freer the soldier, the harder he'll fight.

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Feb 23, 2009

Charles rated it

Why are western militaries so lethal? Incredibly readable history.

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Jan 25, 2010

Bill rated it

very good

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Jun 30, 2009

Robert rated it

Shelves: favorites

Excellent book detailing the cultural heritage which props up western militaries so effectively. Hanson thinks he's refuted Jared Diamond, but nothing could be further from the truth. The two of them are working on radically different timescales. Hanson is only looking at the last 2500 years, Diamond looks at patterns that have emerged over tens of thousands of years. Both visions are actually complimentary in large part. I'm interested in hearing their "debate" over NPR from a few yea...more

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Mar 04, 2011

Mark rated it

· review of another edition

Shelves: history-world, history-us, politics

Let me be straight and state I'm a fan of VDH's musings online as well as one who enjoyed A War Like No Other: How the Athenians & Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War...he has a similar world-view to me and presents a wonderful counter point to the politically correct crowd, who push the concept of cultural relativism as did Jared Diamond in Guns, germs and Steel...if all cultures are relative, then why do we not celebrate those that practice cannibalism???

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Jul 19, 2011

Pesha rated it

I probably shouldn't be too harsh on this book. My attention span is about on par with a gnat's these days, so anything that's even remotely dense tends to lose my attention pretty quickly. Will try again once I'm in a calmer environment.

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About Victor Davis Hanson

Hanson was educated at the University of California, Santa Cruz (BA, Classics, 1975), the American School of Classical Studies (1978-79) and received his Ph.D. in Classics from Stanford University in 1980. He lives and works with his family on their forty-acre tree and vine farm near Selma, California, where he was born in 1953.

More about Victor Davis Hanson...

Books by Victor Davis Hanson

A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War

The Western Way of War: Infantry Battle in Classical Greece

Ripples of Battle: How Wars of the Past Still Determine How We Fight, How We Live & How We Think

The Soul of Battle: From Ancient Times to the Present Day

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