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Ishmael (Ishmael #1)

3.92 of 5 stars 3.92 · rating details · 39,894 ratings · 2,868 reviews

Winner of the 1992 Turner Tomorrow Fellowship, Ishmael is a unique and captivating novel that has earned a large and passionate following among readers and critics worldwide. One of the most beloved and bestselling novels of spiritual adventure ever published, it is the story of a man who embarks on a highly provocative intellectual adventure with a gorilla--a journey of t...more

Hardcover, 267 pages

Published November 1st 1991 by Bantam

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May 26, 2007 Keely rated it 1 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: contemporary-fiction, novel, reviewed, american

Are you the sort of person who hears other people discussing books and finding yourself wondering how they can even form opinions on stories? I mean, either you like it or you don't, right?

Well, if that's you, then read this book, The Giver, and Siddhartha (if that sounds like too much, substitute Jonathan Livingston Seagull for the latter). Once you've done that, you'll feel all sorts of strange emotions and ideas swirling around inside you and you, too, will be able to talk about how a book m...more Are you the sort of person who hears other people discussing books and finding yourself wondering how they can even form opinions on stories? I mean, either you like it or you don't, right?

Well, if that's you, then read this book, The Giver, and Siddhartha (if that sounds like too much, substitute Jonathan Livingston Seagull for the latter). Once you've done that, you'll feel all sorts of strange emotions and ideas swirling around inside you and you, too, will be able to talk about how a book made you think.

Then, you should watch Donnie Darko (which will become your favorite movie), and you can talk about how movies made you think, too. Soon, you'll be readin' and thinkin' and talkin' up a storm. It's just like a dog who eats grass so he can understand horses.

This book may seem impressive if you don't have much experience with philosophy, history, sociology, or theology, but the ideas in this book are about as complex as what you'd find in a college freshman's paper. And Quinn has an agenda: he wants to convince you, so all of his ideas are simplified and mixed up to support his conclusions. Whether he did this deliberately to convince the reader, or accidentally in the process of trying to convince himself isn't really important. Which one is really worse?

For example, in his retelling of the Cain and Abel story, he completely conflates Hunter Gatherer societies with Pastoral Nomads, which makes his entire argument murky. It's just another example of the 'Noble Savage in balance with nature' thing, which is terribly naive. Native cultures often transformed the land around them and drove animals to extinction, as evidenced by the way mammoths were hunted until none remained.

One archaeological team on the West Coast of America discovered that the local tribe had been systematically killing and eating all the animals in the area. Looking through the piles of discarded bones, they'd find the tribe hunted and ate one animal until there were none left, then moved on to a different animal. Eventually, the diseases brought by Europeans reached them and their population was greatly reduced, and then the animals began to flourish again.

The whole notion that humans used to be 'in balance' but no longer are is a fuzzy dream, and not useful for anyone trying to look at the world and the problems we face. Humans are not the first animals to cause extinction, we're not even the first to cause mass extinction across the world. It is a gross oversimplification, like all of the arguments in this book.

Should people be nice to each other? Yes. Should we destroy the things that keep us alive? No. We all know that. We don't need Quinn to tell us. And we all know that solving problems is harder than saying that things could be better. I just went as deep as this book goes, and I didn't even need to give you lectures from a magical talking monkey.(less)

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Irisse Le roux The difference between us and algae though is...ready, ready? That we know what we are doing is killing off species. And have the intelligence to take...more
Jun 15, 2013 05:22pm

Keely Certainly true, but my question is should we? What is the moral imperative here? 99% of the species that have ever lived on this planet are now extinc...more
Jun 15, 2013 10:57pm

Jun 14, 2012 Lori rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: all of mankind

Recommended to Lori by: Joe Cannon

This book was recommended to me from my Ecology teacher on Saturday. I bought it the same day because i really needed a decent read... i having been craving this all the time lately.
I did not put it down until i was done with it two days later.
The premise is a man talking to a gorilla... however simple and idiotic that may seem to you, this story reveals so eloquently what i have always believed to be the reasons for the way we live in modern society. It details the way in which our society ha...more

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May 11, 2012 Max Ostrovsky rated it 5 of 5 stars

Shelves: contemporary, philosophy, fiction, favorites

Although, purposefully didactic, it was beautiful. It read incredibly fast, but it sits with you for a very long time. Imagine eating something quick and cheap like a taco bell burrito only to discover that once it reached your stomach, it felt like a 7 course meal at a 5 star restaurant. Definitely plenty of intellectual bang for your buck.

Lately, absurdly leftist books such as the previously reviewed Illuminatus! Trilogy have just pissed me off with their "all we need is to love each other" p...more

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Mar 26, 2008 Sherri Scoffield rated it 1 of 5 stars · review of another edition

This book gets many 5-star reviews and is touted as “life changing”.
My comment: “GET A LIFE!!!” This could possibly be THE WORST book I have ever read. I have been reading this book forever! I am so glad I am finished!
It’s 200+ pages of torture! (This size of book I would normally devour in 1-2 days.) It’s a sociology lecture --- a cringingly horrible, horrible, didactic book. And to top it off, it’s horribly written.

This telepathic gorilla pontificates on culture, his take on the book of Genes...more

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Sep 05, 2008 Anna rated it 1 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: thought

My biggest problem with primitivism as a philosophy is its inherent hypocrisy. Notice how it's always highly educated white dudes insulated from the world who clamor for a return to some idealized "simpler" life? In the case of this book, it's a distinguished professor haughtily preaching about how we should learn some lessons from hunter-gatherer people, channeling his philosophy through a gorilla character who converses with an "everyman" character. Ishmael the gorilla makes a passing derogato...more My biggest problem with primitivism as a philosophy is its inherent hypocrisy. Notice how it's always highly educated white dudes insulated from the world who clamor for a return to some idealized "simpler" life? In the case of this book, it's a distinguished professor haughtily preaching about how we should learn some lessons from hunter-gatherer people, channeling his philosophy through a gorilla character who converses with an "everyman" character. Ishmael the gorilla makes a passing derogatory mention of the "noble savage" idea, then spends the rest of the book romanticizing and idealizing the hunter-gatherer cultures, trying to get across the idea that modern Western people have trouble seeing merit in such cultures because we've been brainwashed by our industrialized society.

But the thing is, going back to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle would mean a goodbye to literacy, to book publishing, to all the things without which Daniel Quinn and others like him would have no more literary soapbox to stand on. Instead, he'd be busy carrying his life on his back as he trudged across the plains looking for food and trying to not get eaten by lions. He'd die before the age of 40 of some perfectly treatable disease -- that is, if he hadn't died while being born or during childhood.

The extreme utopianism and naivete pissed me off so much that I did some research on the anarcho-primitivist philosophy behind it. Turns out my views on this matter match those of Noam Chomsky, who wrote the following in "Chomsky on Anarchism":

I do not think they are realizing that what they are calling for is the mass genocide of millions of people because of the way society is now structured and organized, urban life and so forth. If you eliminate these structures, everybody dies. For example, I can't grow my own food. It's a nice idea, but it's not going to work, not in this world. And in fact, none of us want to live a hunter-gatherer life. There are just too many things in life that the modern world offers us. In just plain terms of survival, what they are calling for is the worst mass genocide in human history. And unless one thinks through these things, it's not really serious.

Indeed, mass genocide is exactly what Quinn advocates in "Ishmael." One of his arguments is that the world's population is growing and draining the Earth's resources, and to control the population we must reduce the food supply, specifically to the parts of the world that are already experiencing famine. To put it another way, he's in favor of starving a million people in Africa and India whose only crime was being born in the wrong time and the wrong place. Nice, Dr. Quinn. Why not just make it simpler and kill off the poorest 10 percent of the world's population? That part of the book smelled a lot like Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" to me, except unfortunately Quinn is not an intentional satirist.

Another issue was the deeply rooted sexism in both the language and the thought process. Here's a quote about why "Mother Culture" is always feminine in the text: "Culture is a mother everywhere and at every time, because culture is inherently a nurturer..." Because of course, a woman's role is always as mother and nurturer and not much else.

The starting premise of this book is that the human race is quickly destroying the Earth, and we will kill ourselves and take the planet with us if we don't stop. This is a premise with actual scientific proof behind it. Humans believe that they are the end-all be-all of evolution, and therefore the planet belongs to them to do as they please with no regard for other species or life forms, and that's what's going to kill us, sooner than later. Nothing to disagree with, there. But Quinn's "solution" is a bunch of hypocritical and unrealistic drivel.

All that being said, I know that for some people (including my boyfriend, who loves this book and is the reason I read it in the first place), "Ishmael" is what opened their eyes to the dire need to protect the environment. That's great. I just hope that no one ends their search for a solution with this book and this philosophy.(less)

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Mar 24, 2010 Esteban del Mal rated it 1 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: Jungians who like it didactic style; the epiphany challenged

Recommended to Esteban by: a karma vampire

Shelves: fiction, novel, pickle-tossed

Step right up, ladies and gentlemen! Behold the majesty of Curious George as he gets all dialogue-y on your ass! Your encounter will leave you changed! You, too, may find yourself flinging poop at civilization along with our simian savior!

A telepathic gorilla develops something like consciousness, is happily able to flower under the attentive stewardship of a George Soros-type philanthropist and waxes philosophical to a disenchanted idealist. This book stinks of anthropological and ecological p...more

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Jan 26, 2009 Tatiana rated it 1 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: nobody

Shelves: fantasy, mostwretchedofalltime

I haven't finished this book yet but I probably won't because it sucks. First of all, it's supposed to be a novel but it's entirely didactic. The author has simply substituted this gorilla to preach at us in the author's voice. The viewpoint character is simple minded and vacuous to the point of not existing. In fact, he's just there as the foil or receptacle for the gorilla's teachings. The central thesis of the gorilla's thoughts, which he presents as unassailable fact, is the supposition that...more I haven't finished this book yet but I probably won't because it sucks. First of all, it's supposed to be a novel but it's entirely didactic. The author has simply substituted this gorilla to preach at us in the author's voice. The viewpoint character is simple minded and vacuous to the point of not existing. In fact, he's just there as the foil or receptacle for the gorilla's teachings. The central thesis of the gorilla's thoughts, which he presents as unassailable fact, is the supposition that human population will ALWAYS increase to use all available food supply, something that simply isn't true in any of the developed countries. If it weren't for immigration, of course, the U.S. and most of Western Europe would have falling populations. The author dismisses this massive flaw in his edifice of cards by saying someone somewhere will eat the food or else people would stop growing it. Okay, so he then doesn't notice that if people stop growing food because there's nobody to eat it, then the population is limiting itself and the human species is not doing its job of multiplying, engulfing, and devouring as he claims it always must.

It's the same old stuff the Club of Rome said in the 70s and so on and so on from Malthus to the present. It comes about because people don't realize that trends do change in response to changing situations. Women empowered with birth control to choose their family size have less children. Fishers who realize fish stocks are depleted do change their methods and either enact laws limiting catch sizes, or turn to farming, or become conservationists of wild species.

The human species has lived off mother earth's bounty for all its childhood and adolescence, but it IS growing up, and will eventually nurture all the world's resources in a realistic way leading to complete sustainability. There's nothing improbable about that.

Some of the things the author doesn't realize follow.

In space the resources are truly unlimited. We're not in a closed petri dish. We just have to reach out and develop what's there.

We make new resources all the time with advances in technology. Worthless sand becomes useful glass, then even more useful microchips. Black sludge becomes a fuel or a plastic container. The more we know the more we see worthless things around us turn into jewels under our hands.

Before human stewardship, life on earth was far from safe and cozy. Asteroid impacts destroyed nearly all living things on several different occasions (Cambrian, Permian, Cretaceous, etc.) and could do so again, even more completely, if humans aren't technologically advanced enough to prevent it. The history of life is riddled with catastrophes that weren't caused by humans.

There's so much more, I could write a novel. But you get the picture. Please save your efforts for some book that will entertain you or teach you something true. This one is useless for either.(less)

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Jul 18, 2008 Palsay rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: everyone

Recommended to Palsay by: Hilman

Shelves: phenomenal, translated-fiction, light-philosophy

Aku masih memandangi buku yang baru saja selesai kubaca, tiba-tiba gambar disampulnya yang tadinya tidak kuperhatikan kini menjadi begitu berarti.

Sejak halaman terakhir kukatupkan, aku merasa letupan-letupan yang ada dalam benakku mulai lepas kontrol. Mereka sudah menjadi ledakan yang tak sanggup kukendalikan. Aku meringsut, kembali membuka-buka beberapa halaman yang entah untuk keperluan apa kulipat diujung-ujungnya. Suasana tengah malam sunyi, namun seolah didalam kepalaku ada ratusan suara y...more

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Mar 26, 2007 kevin rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

The reason I like Quinn’s style in “Ishmael” is that he doesn’t assume a pedantic perch atop humanity and force-feed a philosophically-driven, A-Z laundry list of “how to make yourself a better human being” and “save the world one person at a time” mantra down the reader’s throat. His style of writing is intimate. Reading “Ishmael” kind of reminds you of sitting in lecture with that one professor in college whose class you earnestly enjoyed and looked forward to attending each week - those lectu...more The reason I like Quinn’s style in “Ishmael” is that he doesn’t assume a pedantic perch atop humanity and force-feed a philosophically-driven, A-Z laundry list of “how to make yourself a better human being” and “save the world one person at a time” mantra down the reader’s throat. His style of writing is intimate. Reading “Ishmael” kind of reminds you of sitting in lecture with that one professor in college whose class you earnestly enjoyed and looked forward to attending each week - those lectures where you felt as if taking notes was more of an inconvenient distraction than simply opening your ears and listening for 60 minutes. You got more out of it by just sitting there like a blob taking it all in as opposed to fretting over particulars. You can tell Quinn is (or was) a good teacher. A good teacher defined as one who guides his/her students to the answers to their questions; not one who regurgitates, spoon-feeds or paraphrases concepts, principles and opinions down your throat systematically. Like Ishmael's narrator, I too found myself excited to come back each day (via turning the next page) to learn another part of the “story.”

What I find fascinating about this book is the power of its seemingly simplistic message: “Man unto himself is temporal phenomenon.” Quinn doesn’t waste his time extrapolating the myriad of problems that affect our world to make his point. He doesn’t bother to persuade or guilt the reader into action with “doomsday” scenarios, statistics, outcomes or make sententious arguments to bolster his credibility as a “thinker.” Instead, he plainly examines the most basic function of the human species and how the organization of its functionality became – well, dysfunctional. Regardless of whether you factor God, evolution or “little green men” into your respective paradigm to help you make sense of humanity, its purpose and ultimate destiny - refuting the message in this book is unreasonable. Human beings are the most evolved, intelligent and capable species on the planet. As such, we find ourselves amidst a paradox. We are progenitor to the earth as well as the root source of its impending (or at least eventual) devastation.

Ishmael is not a book whose scope is easily confined to the adverse effects of humanity on the environment or excess population or invasion of one civilization by another throughout history or how we’re killing the polar bear into extinction, etc. Its message is simply that man has forgotten his place in the order of nature (in a very large context) and that happened the moment man was cognizant of his innate ability to differentiate good vs. evil as a species. As a result, man began to use that acumen as an instinctual instrument to serve as justification for what “lives” and what “dies” pursuant to ensuring his unlimited growth – at any expense. - KL

(less)

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Jun 30, 2007 Lobeck rated it 1 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: people who don't know anything and are willing to be treated like idiots

Shelves: least-favorite-of-all-time

i could crap a better book than this. it's condescending and trying to be profound but very simplistic. if you've already been introduced to basic ideas about we're ruining the earth and need to get our act together, you'll learn nothing new here. and the whole wise teacher/pupil thing is so cliche. so what if he's a gorilla?

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Jul 11, 2007 Pericles' rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

At its core, Ishmael is a narrative about a grand narrative. It aims high, and its failure to achieve what it sets out to do is ultimately more interesting than its stated premise.

Ishmael, however, is conscious of this failing--indicated by Quinn's allusion to Plato's cave. But unlike other modern works which use the form of the Grand Narrative to critique or subvert it (the first Matrix film being the most widely recognized example, and many of the short stories of Borges being more notable),...more

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Mar 24, 2013 Arun Divakar rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: favorites

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that foll...more I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

No matter how many times I watch The Matrix , the one snippet of dialog that resonates the best with me is this. Even the first time I saw the movie, I turned this over and over in my mind and could find agreement with this.

In the microcosm of my little World, to one side of my house was a sizeably large tract of land lush with greenery. There were trees abound and they buzzed with the activity of birds. The place had quite a lot of rodents, snakes and cats and the occassional dog or two.Weekends and early mornings were a sight to behold for to see the sun shining down on that wonderful carpet of greenery or the rain falling on it were totally blissful. One evening, coming back from work I was treated to a most horrifying scene. The trees had been felled and the grass cut away and it looked a wasteland to my eyes. To my questions of what happened, the answer was An apartment complex is coming up there . Imagine waking up to a concrete monstrosity looming above you ! There was nothing more heartbreaking than not hearing the birds or the little creatures anymore.

A few months ago in the northern district of Calicut and specifically at a place named Wayanad in Kerala, men mercilessly hunted down and killed a wild Tiger. The animal was proclaimed a menace to society and a witch hunt was pronounced to hunt it down. Instead of tranquilizing and releasing to the wild, they shot it dead. Do you what the crime of the animal was ? It killed a cow ! And where did it kill the cow ? In a town which bordered the forest ! There are hardly 1200 Tigers left in the wild now. Poachers are never too far away and if we add such bloodlust to the mix, this King of the Indian jungle will not live for long. I do not live under any illusion that my children would some day see a Tiger in the wild ! They might be images frozen in the memory of people by that time. Jungles and greenery disappear and apartments and shopping malls take their space. Water shortage is acute now and draught is no longer a distinct possibility. As nature comes full circle, we have slowly begun to reap what we have sown. I do not share fully the aggressive judgement of Agent Smith but yes I do believe that man's insistence that the world was made for him will bring about our collective downfall.

Ishmael became a favorite to me for it spoke in the same language that I think in. The question it poses has been relevant for decades now : Does the World belong to Man ? Or Does Man belong to the World ? In writing, this involves just the interchange of two words but in reality it could mean the survival of this planet and countless species. The ideas focus on the struggle between an agrarian society and a society that lived in harmony with nature. How inevitably the more powerful agrarian part inserted itself as the rulers and slowly but surely began the destruction of the Earth. I however, see a more evolved threat now for we have even started swallowing up our farmlands. A large number of farmers in India commit suicide after being fully swallowed up by financial debts and most farmlands get converted to multistoreyed buildings overnight. So is the agrarian society the antagonist now ? For a multitude of reasons, it has got to be a technocratic society that has assumed this mantle of being the rulers of Earth now. At first was the agricultural revolution and then came the industrial revolution and silently but surefootedly came the technological revolution which now holds the planet in its sway.

The ideas in this book were powerful enough to unlock a lot of angst that I had buried deep within me. Highly recommended ! Those who love nature as much as humanity should definitely read this one !(less)

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Apr 08, 2008 Marty rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: intellectuals that are looking for an ass-kicking

At a Borders parking lot back home, it was spray-painted into the pavement "READ ISHMAEL"
That's basically how I first heard about it and read it. Especially since I parked over the spray-painted message time and time again.
Would people really read this book if it was called "Ricardo" or "Paul"...I say no.
So thanks for giving it this name that nobody has except for people obsessed with Moby Dick, which I have not come across.

I think intellectuals like to say that this book changed their mind on t...more

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Oct 04, 2007 Jesse rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: All

A little story about Ishmael by Daniel Quinn:

I first read this back in the fall of '99 for a college course. It was a time in my life where (for a variety of reasons, including a breakup of a long relationship) I was first began to think for myself, instead of think what others wanted me to think. This book completely wiped away the world view that my parents, friends, and teachers had put into my head for so many years, and then began the formation of my own view. Since then I have been a seeke...more

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Dec 27, 2010 Brian rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: reviewed, in-full

This review is divided into "extended" and "brief" analysis of the book in question. The extended version precedes the brief, which can be found by at the bottom of the text. Minors spoilers are found throughout the extended review.

In Ishmael Daniel Quinn uses a charming setup to examine how civilization justifies its use (and abuse) of environments. Questions of cultural identity, the anthropology of fiction, sustainable development, and the ethics of consumption are raised. Answers and model...more

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Sep 14, 2011 Sam rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: At least 15+ There is nothing bad in here, but comprehension may be a problem.

Recommended to Sam by: Teacher

Shelves: books-that-make-me-cry

This book was an extra credit book for school, so basically required. Now, let me point out that it took me almost a MONTH to read this book. (Mainly due to procrastination, boredom, and journals we had to write after each chapter). Now, in the beginning, I thought that this was one of the most boring books ever written. If it wasn't for school, I would have dropped it. Yep, just stopped reading. I don't do that very often. By the middle I was like "You know, this isn't as bad as it seemed, in f...more

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Apr 25, 2012 Monica rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

“Ishmael” is a philosophical book that deals with multiple issues such as cultural myths, laws that govern society and how we should live our lives, the extinction of the plant’s species, and man’s numerous stories of creation.

Once I finished reading this book I came to the conclusion that I liked it. However, while reading, I wondered many times if it wasn’t a bit too preachy, a bit too “in my face” with the authors thoughts and ideas.

The dialogue was simple and to the point, perhaps sometimes...more

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Jul 16, 2011 belajarjadimanusia rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Kalo pertanyaannya benar, lebih besar kemungkinan bagi kita utk dapet jawaban yg benar.

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Jun 07, 2013 Liza rated it 2 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: part-read, philosophy

I got to p. 133...

I sympathize with Daniel Quinn and Ishmael: I agree that humankind has been careless and expansively selfish vis-à-vis the planet. I do not have absolute faith in future technology's ability to "fix it". I'm not a pessimist. I'm generally a realist. I am an environmentalist. If morality is worth anything, then I absolutely believe it's our moral obligation as conscious beings to try to reign in our environmental impact, for a variety of reasons...

And as a reader, I'm totally ga...more

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Mar 05, 2009 Kathryn rated it 1 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Don't read this book. It was miserable.

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Feb 27, 2012 C.G. Worrell rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Put on your "willing suspension of disbelief" glasses. A giant telepathic gorilla is about to teach a jaded writer what it means to be civilized. I sucked this down in four days for a book club meeting. Using the Socratic method, Ishmael the gorilla leads the protagonist on a journey of cultural re-evaluation. What happened 10,000 years ago that led humans to where we are today: a planet of Takers consuming resources like a plague of locusts?
Ishmael is not a sanctimonious blow-hard, or a proph...more

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Sep 13, 2010 John Clark rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: sustainability

We, the people of our culture, are the inheritors and administrators of a grave evil. Strong evidence of this evil is blazed in the destruction of our environment, which is clearly caused by humans. Sadly, we have been taught, and we continue to teach others, that this evil is actually good: not that we should be destroying our environment, but that it is a consequence of an otherwise noble pursuit of our culture. With "Ishmael", Daniel Quinn bravely explores and exposes the destructive conseque...more We, the people of our culture, are the inheritors and administrators of a grave evil. Strong evidence of this evil is blazed in the destruction of our environment, which is clearly caused by humans. Sadly, we have been taught, and we continue to teach others, that this evil is actually good: not that we should be destroying our environment, but that it is a consequence of an otherwise noble pursuit of our culture. With "Ishmael", Daniel Quinn bravely explores and exposes the destructive consequences of the assumptions of this culture.

"Ishmael" is a very important book, if the previous paragraph wasn't dramatic enough for you. It asks us some very hard questions, starting with why are we destroying our beautiful home, the Earth? Next up is does it have to be this way? (Spoiler: no.)

The book does have a number of idiosyncrasies that have alienated a number of readers; still, I exhort you to read this book and consider its arguments. Yes, the eponymous character is a telepathic gorilla; this is simply a device to project the arguments beyond the imposed isolation of civilization, to make us think about what nature could be teaching us if we tried to listen to it. Because of this, the book is technically fiction, but it is a thin veneer around a philosophy lecture. Yes, the author is a part of the culture he is criticizing. Yes, he uses fairly standard gender-weighted language ("man", "mankind", "Mother Culture"). How do either of these detract from his arguments? There are also some more substantive problems with the book, like the fact that he encourages the development of civilization without defining what he means by that, but these problems do not affect his main conclusions.

While this book contains philosophy and ambitious historical analysis wrapped in a thin candy coating, the philosophy is still presented very clearly. Quinn is not shy about his ideas; indeed, he lays them out in excruciating detail. For however much you may like or dislike his style, you still must account honestly for the substance of his arguments and his conclusions.(less)

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Sep 08, 2008 Aaron rated it 2 of 5 stars · review of another edition

This book was worth reading but many parts bothered me. First Ishmael makes incorrect statements about how nature works, and asserts that humans have violated these rules, which is the source of our discontents. E.g. Ishmael states that other species do not attack competitors. This is false. Species will attack predators whenever there is an adaptive advantage to do so. Ishmael also states that predators never take more than they can eat. This is also false. I read an article about how predators...more

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Ryan Two factual points regarding your review:

"E.g. Ishmael states that other species do not attack competitors."

This is incorrect, in fact he specificall...more
Apr 19, 2010 12:58pm

Aaron I appreciate the comment. I never expected anyone but friends to read my brief little review, so I didn't try to make my wording legally perfect or el...more I appreciate the comment. I never expected anyone but friends to read my brief little review, so I didn't try to make my wording legally perfect or elucidate fully. Nonetheless, after rereading relevant passages, my criticism remains.

Yes, I see the wording on pg. 126, and I am still quite sure it gets evolution, and resulting animal behavior, incorrect. Right after the baboon passage you mention is Ishmael's concluding point on the matter: "The point to see is that, although baboons will go looking for food, they will never go looking for leopards... When animals go hunting—even extremely aggressive animals like baboons—it’s to obtain food, not to exterminate competitors or even animals that prey on them.” Anyone familiar with animal behavior and Darwinian evolution here will scratch their head in amazement at these statements. An animal will do these things whenever natural selection finds it advantageous. For example, water buffalo regularly "hunt" lion cubs proactively just to stomp on them. This is not for food or to defend from an immediate threat. It is to stamp out future predators. That behavior is directly contrary to Ishmael's claim. Another example is chimps have been observed in the wild systematically annihilating competing groups, getting them down to the point where they are just a few females that they will then absorb.

"I don't believe lions end up locked in a room with a bunch of gazelles on too frequent a bases in natural conditions"
This does happen. I was watching National Geographic a while back and a bunch of domesticated donkeys walked into several lions' territory in Africa. The 2-3 lions systematically killed more than 20 donkeys, (who unlike zebras were too stupid to run) several times more than they could eat before the meat putrefied. They did it apparently for sheer pleasure. Natural selection gives lions a thrill when they kill something. The only reason this doesn't happen all the time in the wild is because natural selection gives Zebras defense mechanisms that the domestic donkeys didn't have - not because there is some natural etiquette that the lions are obeying.

I would love to see an actual evolutionary biologist review the book. I couldn't find one online. I am merely a science-major and mammalogy and evolution enthusiast.(less)
Apr 19, 2010 02:14pm

Conspiracy2riot the book starts off dealing with 'captivity'. something you use to illustrate your point about quinn having his facts wrong about predators. i suppose...more
Sep 29, 2011 10:07am

Jan 28, 2008 Lilith rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: Everyone and their brother.

Recommended to Lilith by: Eve Benjelloun

My cousin introduced me to Daniel Quinn while I was visiting her in September, and though I was only getting summaries via print-outs of his various lectures, I fell in love with his ideas. The narrative tale of Ishmael - a telepathic teacher/student relationship between a gorilla and disillusioned youth, respectively - is a thinly veiled attempt on Quinn's part to present his anthropological arguments in a more entertaining way. The weakness in the narrative is almost always negated by Quinn's...more My cousin introduced me to Daniel Quinn while I was visiting her in September, and though I was only getting summaries via print-outs of his various lectures, I fell in love with his ideas. The narrative tale of Ishmael - a telepathic teacher/student relationship between a gorilla and disillusioned youth, respectively - is a thinly veiled attempt on Quinn's part to present his anthropological arguments in a more entertaining way. The weakness in the narrative is almost always negated by Quinn's theory, which makes the book oddly difficult to put down. Quinn takes a very Nietzschian approach to his analysis of human history, refusing to give way to the temptation to analyze human history - pre and post agricultural revolution - through the principals of divinity. He instead crafts the most convincing and urgent argument I have ever been exposed to against that very urge. Upon carefully reading the text, one will find that this is all Quinn does attack - the belief in the right to decide what, en masse, may live and die, and the belief to ownership over the earth. He does not promote the immediate cessation of agriculture, making the point that agriculture existed before the agricultural revolution, but was not spread and forced upon other tribes until that point. His points regarding humanitarian aid to famine-ravaged areas are also difficult to stomach, but they are also valid. It is important to note that most countries in need of such aid are only in such a position because of imperialist conquests for their land and resources, and that the idea of saving everyone goes as much against sacrificing the 'one right way' mentality as the idea of killing them does. Because many, if not all, of the huge problems we as a global society grapple with are cause by the idea of entitlement and divine ownership, and because society shows no signs of reverting back to its old tribal self, one must question the appropriate course of action to take regarding them. Ishmael also left me wondering why, after hundreds of thousands of years, the mentality Quinn attacks just happened to develope. Though Ishmael ultimately asks a few more questions than it answers, it is an eye opening book and reshaped my views on human history, cultural identity, and the condition of modern day society. (less)

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Apr 16, 2008 Marty rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: patient, thoughtful readers

Daniel Quinn's books offer two things: 1.) a challenge to read 2.) the reward of better understanding how the planet's connundrums (war, hunger, overpopulation) are "facts" of life.

Actually three things: 3.) all this sage wisdom comes from a talking Gorilla. No shit...

Please bear with me!

Example - World population and hunger: There will ALWAYS be an exponential expansion of population beyond the means of production, and this is illustrated deftly (if not repetitiously to drive home one of MANY p...more

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Feb 18, 2009 Jensownzoo rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: fiction, favorites

Well, this is a sociology/ecology lecture loosely disguised as a novel that makes you sit back and say "why didn't I think of that, it's so obvious to me now!" And it's done in a way that continually builds on the presented ideas so that you understand the concepts from the ground up. Loved it. Think everyone should read it.

8 likes · like · see review

Apr 24, 2009 April rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: Kevin, James, Jen, Angela... the hippies. :>

Shelves: philosophy-religion

Definitely a hippie book, at first I thought the philosophy behind it was all about saving nature, the rainforests, blah blah.. :> But it's really about something deeper, challenging human 'nature' as we know it. Truly an amazing book.

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May 15, 2008 Ian rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: co-op shoppers, liberals, crystal children

Recommended to Ian by: fate

The quintessential hippie college book. Years after college, I found it left on a beach in Hawaii, like so many LaRouche pamplets on university campuses, and read it in a few sittings. To anyone with half a brain and some college education, a lot of this book will seem painfully obvious, as this type of thinking has so permeated public conciousness in recent years. But if you can turn the volume down on your censors even a little, there's much to be appreciated here. I will never look at zoos th...more

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Jan 02, 2009 Jeff rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

My wife has been after me to read this book for years now. I was somewhat tenative about it...I was actually downright stubborn about not reading it...but finally relented, and I'm glad that I did.

To say the least, an unusual use of the Socratic dialogue structure to discuss the place of mankind in the world. And while I see Quinn's point, and realize that what he is saying is for all intents and purposes "the truth," I also understand, as the narrator in the book undoubtedly does as well, that...more

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Jun 17, 2013 Billy rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

This book had been on my to-read list since before the existence of goodreads.com, as one of those classics referred by friends as a life changer. The theme and philosophy of the book is something I have felt and known intuitively since I was a child, something that many of us of my generation have known since we were children: that the consumptive and domineering lifestyle of "progressive" humanity is unbalanced and will not last. Not that I don't appreciate books written on the subject, actual...more

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About Daniel Quinn

Daniel Quinn (born 1935 in Omaha, Nebraska) is a U.S. writer.
He studied at St. Louis University, the University of Vienna, and Loyola University of Chicago, receiving a bachelor's degree in English, cum laude, in 1957.
He is best known for his book Ishmael (1992), which won the Turner Tomorrow Fellowship Award in 1991.

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The Story of B: An Adventure of the Mind and Spirit

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“There is no one right way to live.” — 84 people liked it

“But why? Why do you need prophets to tell you how you ought to live? Why do you need anyone to tell you how you ought to live” — 66 people liked it

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