Taking the form of a dialogue among Socrates, Gorgias, Polus, and Callicles, the Gorgias debates crucial questions about the nature of gover...
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Aug 29, 2010
Mando
rated it: 
I feel the need to point out that while my ISBN matches, my book only has 149 pages (as opposed to the supposed 224, according to goodreads). I dunno what I'm missing out on, but as far as I can tell my book contains all its parts.
This book makes a lot of complex arguments, and at times I found it hard to follow. There were several occasions where I had to read passages and even whole pages over again because I got lost in the arguments. I think the instances where Plato chooses t More...
This book makes a lot of complex arguments, and at times I found it hard to follow. There were several occasions where I had to read passages and even whole pages over again because I got lost in the arguments. I think the instances where Plato chooses t More...
Aug 07, 2011
David
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It is difficult to put a date to such a text, though internal comments can assist us with determining when it was written. While I do not consider myself an expert on Plato, I would put this text down as one of his earlier writings as he seems to be putting a conversation down on paper. A lot have been written on Plato's dialogues, which tend to be philosophical discussions with Socrates as the main speaker. However, it is a dialogue, and this it is not simply a single person speaking constantl
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Jul 14, 2010
Too old to rate. Reading this in a yellowed library book, with edges of the pages flaking off and falling into my lap as I read, Gorgias made a strong argument, more unintentionally than intentionally, for the uselessness of rhetoric. Time has turned Plato's wisdom into despotism and Socrates' humility into a shield to hide his philosophy's flaws behind. Does Plato still offer anything to teach us today, not merely as history but as genuine philosophy? A lot of what he says are certainly goo
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Jan 28, 2010
Rudy
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J'ai lu ce bouquin parce que je cherchais un livre de philosophie simple à lire. J'ai développé un intérêt pour ce domaine grâce à Elliott Smith et son magnifique album Either/Or, qui m'a fait acheté donc le pavé de Kierkegaard auquel je n'ai strictement rien compris. Mon but maintenant est de réussir à avoir assez de culture littéraire pour pouvoir lire cette effrayante chose. 15€ c'est pas rien, et j'ai promis à ma mère de ne pas lui avoir faire acheter ça pour rien.
Mais pour cela, More...
Mais pour cela, More...
Oct 11, 2011
AC
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This book is a masterpiece. It includes a critical text, and a line-by-line philological commentary. But even the reader without Greek will learn an enormous amount about Plato and related topics by reading it alongside a translation -- just skip all the entries dealing with purely philological matters.
It is often said that the best commentary on Aristotle is Aristotle. Hence, important commentaries on Aristotle spend most of their time quoting (in Greek) other passages from Aristot More...
It is often said that the best commentary on Aristotle is Aristotle. Hence, important commentaries on Aristotle spend most of their time quoting (in Greek) other passages from Aristot More...
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Sep 17, 2011
David
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Plato does suffer from a complete lack of strong criticism to his Socratic Method, apparently even Plato and Socrates thought the Socratic Methods had several weaknesses (several obvious ones too!) but they don't let anyone else in their debating circle know this, but I doubt it would've helped them anyhow.
Plato tends to jump from the particular to the Universal and uses allegory as proof in a slight of hand, swapping terms and uses of language, like only a Sophist could dream of weilding, which More...
Plato tends to jump from the particular to the Universal and uses allegory as proof in a slight of hand, swapping terms and uses of language, like only a Sophist could dream of weilding, which More...
Aug 22, 2011
Edward
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Reading this for a Political Theory class, I was surprised by the excellence of this translation. Previous Platonic dialogues I had encountered in philosophy courses made me apprehensive, but the translation was done so that it was simple to read and appeared to be close to the source. Thus the typical double-edged sword of literalism vs. looser but easier to understand is avoided rather cleverly.
It's rather interesting to consider Plato's views on Politics and the role that rhetoric plays in i More...
It's rather interesting to consider Plato's views on Politics and the role that rhetoric plays in i More...
Jan 16, 2012
James
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It's Plato. If you don't know what to expect, read The Republic. If you do know what to expect, well, I don't see much reason to read "Gorgias" outside of formal academics unless you just have a burning love for Plato. It's an easy read, perfectly fine for a casual reader, but if you're just reading for enjoyment, there are better ways to spend your time, and if you are actually interested in learning something, then there isn't much here that isn't covered in The Republic, and The Rep
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Oct 09, 2011
Knarik
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Very interesting and quite a provoking book. One could not help wanting to jump into the argument and, inevitably, lose. By dog, Plato makes Socrates into an irrefutable and undefeatable "Orator" :)) Because even when Socrates argues against rhetorics as an art and shows that it is a mere knack aimed to persuade people, doesn't he, at the same time persuade them of his point of view, through reason? Doesn't he himself acquire some characteristics of an orator, even if a noble one whose
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May 30, 2011
Cassandra
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I throw my token in with Callicles when he said
"By the gods, Chaerephon, I too have been present at many discussions, but I don't believe that any has ever given me so much pleasure as this. If you like to go on talking all day, you are doing me a favor".
I simply can't get enough of these dialogues! I know there are flaws in them, I know that sometimes as (especially in the one on oratory) the protagonist (Socrates) gets all the words in edgewise and our dear antag More...
"By the gods, Chaerephon, I too have been present at many discussions, but I don't believe that any has ever given me so much pleasure as this. If you like to go on talking all day, you are doing me a favor".
I simply can't get enough of these dialogues! I know there are flaws in them, I know that sometimes as (especially in the one on oratory) the protagonist (Socrates) gets all the words in edgewise and our dear antag More...
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Nov 14, 2010
Jacob
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I find it quite comforting to believe that power is not merely an ability to do what one thinks is best but to do what one truly wants; two capacities that I think Socrates is right to distinguish whether or not it tells us much about what we actually call power. Nevertheless, it seems that Socrates moral universe is too tidy with its totally unrepressed good guys and hopelessly confused villains. I'm fairly certain that my inner child, raised as he was by the morality plays of Disney, regular
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Jun 27, 2011
Mary
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Socrates' biggest humbug. Still, I agree on all of his ethics, but he makes rhetoric out to be some sort of ornamental flippery. Strangely, when he revisits the topic in the Phaedrus, he answers some of his own arguments put forth here. Probably my favorite part of this dialogue is the progression (or rather denigration) of the interlocutors. Starting out with the master and ending with the equivalent of the petulant undergrad hanger-on gives the appearance of Socrates' arguments getting better,
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Sep 28, 2010
This is my first piece by Plato. I struggled with it since I have also just finished reading some of the early Sophists' works. So this is very different in that Plato uses his character Socrates to basically bash and "shame" rhetoricans.
After discussion with my Rhetorical Theory class, we all came to the conclusion that we really do not like Plato, however, we do respect him. At times we did find ourselves agreeing with him but more often than not we would have rather he More...
After discussion with my Rhetorical Theory class, we all came to the conclusion that we really do not like Plato, however, we do respect him. At times we did find ourselves agreeing with him but more often than not we would have rather he More...
Oct 24, 2011
Selman
rated it:
Ben hakikaten sevmiyorum bu Platon'u ya. Gorgias'ı tekrar okuyunca tekrar farkettim. Şimdi kitap elimde değil, zaten sağlıklı analizler yapacak halim ve iştiyakım da yok ama özetle şöyle söyleyebilirim: Platon, Sokrates'in tartışmayı sanki son derece sistematik ve kullandığı kavramların her birini açık seçik tanımlayarak yürüttüğü gibi bir izlenim vermeye çalışıyor ve fakat aslında durum hiç de öyle değil.
Platon, Sokrates'in muhataplarını kendilerini bir şey sanan avanaklar gibi göst More...
Platon, Sokrates'in muhataplarını kendilerini bir şey sanan avanaklar gibi göst More...
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Mar 02, 2008
Trevor
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Well, if one was to sum up, it would be hard to go past Plato’s own summary:
“And of all that has been said, nothing remains unshaken but the saying, that to do injustice is more to be avoided than to suffer injustice, and that the reality and not the appearance of virtue is to be followed above all things, as well in public as in private life; and that when any one has been wrong in anything, he is to be chastised, and that the next best thing to a man being just is that he should b More...
“And of all that has been said, nothing remains unshaken but the saying, that to do injustice is more to be avoided than to suffer injustice, and that the reality and not the appearance of virtue is to be followed above all things, as well in public as in private life; and that when any one has been wrong in anything, he is to be chastised, and that the next best thing to a man being just is that he should b More...
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Aug 26, 2010
Florian
rated it:
I'm giving 5 stars to this one because it's got a very special place in my library.
This is the book that got me interested in philosophy. This is just the first book that made me think. And so it's worth 5 stars to me. It's a wonderful book with real and simple thoughts, simple ways of seeing everything.
This is the book that got me interested in philosophy. This is just the first book that made me think. And so it's worth 5 stars to me. It's a wonderful book with real and simple thoughts, simple ways of seeing everything.
Aug 02, 2010
William
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This is the first time I've read Plato, or any classical Greek text other than Bible translations. I'm not reading with much context because I haven't studied philosophy before now.
The main thing I disagreed with is Socrates' pacifism inasmuch as I believe it is both ethical and necessary to seek retribution for torts. We cannot count on an afterlife to punish the mind/body/soul of the wicked.
A couple of ideas compelled me... to finish later.
The main thing I disagreed with is Socrates' pacifism inasmuch as I believe it is both ethical and necessary to seek retribution for torts. We cannot count on an afterlife to punish the mind/body/soul of the wicked.
A couple of ideas compelled me... to finish later.
Sep 18, 2009
Leif
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What can I say about Plato that hasn't already been said: either here, or by the editor of my edition, who was generous enough to point out all the flaws in Socrates' arguments. I read this for its discussion of rhetoric, and came away somewhat enlightened, stimulated, and angry. If that helps.
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Sep 07, 2009
Zachariah
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A fun read (Though maybe just for people who enjoy logical philosophizing (INTJs?)). Socrates absolutely works the other characters by getting them to assent to simple questions and then after a long trail, Socrates sums sums it all up and shows how the other contradicted their previous assertions.
May 25, 2010
Cydney
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Another heavy read from Plato but a terrific dialogue nonetheless. While I found that many of the arguments in this particular dialogue were even more circular in nature than his others, it remained a highly interesting and thought-provoking read. His arguments regarding injustice and punishment were fascinating as was his arguments in regard to temperance and virtue.
Nov 26, 2011
Michael
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A masterpiece that should be required reading for every voter. Politics are full of Orators and as Plato so succinctly points out, that isn't a productive skill.
Of all the great Philosophy books, this one is the most useful for everyday life.
Of all the great Philosophy books, this one is the most useful for everyday life.
Nov 18, 2011
Rabishu
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Plato, deeply embittered by Socrates' death, draws a portrait of Socrates that is bitchy, sarcastic, and even-for-him incredibly ironic.
Good times.
Unless your name happens to be Callicles, in which case, dude, you are about to get your sophistry-lovin' buttcheeks owned up in the worst possible way.
Good times.
Unless your name happens to be Callicles, in which case, dude, you are about to get your sophistry-lovin' buttcheeks owned up in the worst possible way.
Oct 08, 2009
Nathan
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just finished taking my High School Rhetoric class through this dialogue. In my mind, it is an important starting point as it stimulates thoughts regarding the relationship between rhetorical 'skill' and ethics. Rhetoric to what end?
Oct 01, 2009
Lilian
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Excellent Book. Aptly manifests the genius that Socrates in his debates with Gorgias and how he smoothly corners his opponents until they are forced to speak out that which they cannot or do not want to express!
Aug 16, 2010
Steven
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This brings me back to my poly-sci days as an undergrad. Pretty dense, as is most ancient Greek philosophy, but I can't complain too much about political conversation that's used as foreplay for orgies.
Sep 10, 2011
Thompson
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Here the discussion is on "The Good." Like "love" in the Symposium, there are degrees of "Good" depending on how far "The Good" is removed from the Form of Good.
May 18, 2010
Jesse
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Who ever got more angry at Socrates than Callicles? Seriously, how could this guy call Socrates a demagogue? He wanted to save the generals of Arginusae!
Aug 05, 2009
One of the better dialogues in that it manages to raise most of the big issues of virtue and citizenship in way which does not feel to rushed or overly contrived. It's the first dialogue I've read which actually made me smirk when Socrates offered a witty retort or a brilliant condemnation of someone else's views. to someone. It's also a lot of fun to hate on Callicles
Feb 08, 2012
Jamie
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Nothing personal. I just detest this type of literature and don't understand why anyone would read it outside of a required reading list for school.
Jan 18, 2011
Katie
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Tough to get through, but full of very interesting content. An enjoyable and thought provoking discussion on rhetoric and morality.
