Wittgenstein's Poker: The Story of a Ten-Minute Argument Between Two Great Philosophers by David Edmonds

Apr 03, 2007 Conrad rated it 5 of 5 stars

Shelves: owned, philosophy, history

Karl Popper's a sad case. One of the greatest geniuses of the last century, he was an analytical philosopher par excellence at the exact moment when everyone started to ignore analytical philosophy. But at least he got to survive to see himself become extinct.

Wittgenstein and Popper were from opposite sides of the tracks in Vienna, both had taught school for a little while, both Jews who escaped the Anschluss (Wittgenstein with a bit more dignity than Popper), but beyond some superficial biogra...more

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Dec 26, 2008 Mari rated it 4 of 5 stars Recommends it for: Those studying Wittgenstein or Popper

Recommended to Mari by: Mel

Shelves: philosophy, wittgenstein

Recently (re)discovering a keen interest in Wittgenstein and his work, I found myself once again lacking when I tried to confront the material head-on, as it were. I poured over the same books I'd studied in classes (now more than a decade ago) only to find myself asking the same questions. Am I really understanding any of this the way it was intended to be understood?

Then recommendations came from a family member on a more helpful approach to Wittgenstein - that is, approaching from the side. S...more

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Jul 19, 2012 Brandon rated it 4 of 5 stars

This is a stellar book about a legendary story in academic philosophy: the confrontation between Karl Popper and Ludwig Wittgenstein, two of the twentieth century's biggest philosophers -- and two of the most different.

At a meeting of the Cambridge Moral Sciences Club in 1946, Karl Popper gave a lecture entitled "Are there philosophical problems?", in which he propounded a view which he knew would be directly opposed to Wittgenstein's, who believed that philosophical problems are merely a result...more

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Apr 29, 2011 Greg Brown rated it 4 of 5 stars

While it purports to be about an emphatic argument between Wittgenstein and Popper, the book actually uses that incident as a way into exploring the cultural background of both authors, especially the way they were both shaped by Vienna and the rise o the Nazis. There is some philosophy there, but it's treated very lightly and simply. I probably would have gotten more out of the book if it wasn't retreading so much of what I already sorta knew, but it remains a breezy & easy-to-read explorat...more

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Sep 08, 2010 Mike Moore rated it 4 of 5 stars

I don't like Simon Winchester. I respect what he tries to do, I don't begrudge him his success, but I don't like his books. I mention this because Wittgenstein's Poker is a perfect example of what I wish Winchester's books would be like. The similarities are fairly striking: historical central characters with strong and belligerent personalities, a historical backdrop that mixes the commonplace with legends of days gone by, large and small events tied together by a narrative that is as much char...more

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May 09, 2009 Amit rated it 4 of 5 stars

I almost did not buy this book because I was intimidated by its title. My knowledge of philosphy is scant,limited to the few classes I attended as an engineering underegrad. People who know a lot about philoshpy may be disappointed by this book, but I found it very interesting - like a historical novel.
The authors walk you through the events of early twentieth century Austria and Germany to discuss how they may have influenced these two philosphers, from the assimilation of Jews in the Austrian...more

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Sep 19, 2010 Chris rated it 3 of 5 stars

A beginner-friendly and amusing introduction to 20th century philosophy, which can be so abstruse—and at the later end of the century became so specialized—that pursuing this subject often only interests the most diehard of academics. The setting for this approachable overview of two of that era’s central philosophical perspectives is the legendary clash between Ludwig Wittgenstein and Karl Popper. When these two intellectual behemoths tangled, the concussion was enough to stun, enrage, and embi...more A beginner-friendly and amusing introduction to 20th century philosophy, which can be so abstruse—and at the later end of the century became so specialized—that pursuing this subject often only interests the most diehard of academics. The setting for this approachable overview of two of that era’s central philosophical perspectives is the legendary clash between Ludwig Wittgenstein and Karl Popper. When these two intellectual behemoths tangled, the concussion was enough to stun, enrage, and embitter those in attendance at was supposed to be an ordinary night of lecture and debate at the Moral Science Club at Cambridge. It is amazing to read the near-thespian pettiness of the fallout in the form of letters written years later by witnesses that attempt to vindicate the reputation of one or the other speaker, and the first hand accounts that were later censured for their own colorful version of the episode.

Wittgenstein, the rival that attracts most people to the debate (as the title suggests), is probably the most-renowned name in all of modern philosophy and has been placed by many in the pantheon of the greatest minds since Plato. His ideas are often hard to comprehend to by the uninitiated, and he was even critiqued by his colleagues and philosophical equals as esoteric, so trying to learn his philosophy is daunting at first. This book, however, was a cordial welcome to understand the man behind the idea, and offered a chewed up (and digested I’m sure) version of his contributions to philosophy that a layman can appreciate. Concepts positing language as a labyrinthine fly bottle, a linguistic puzzle that must be solved to get at a basic understanding in life, became very accessible when employed as spark plugs to electrify the details of a fight.

Karl Popper was the challenger. Popper is almost a no-name in philosophy today, especially when sized next to Wittgenstein’s titanic presence as one of the greatest philosophers since Immanuel Kant. Popper's primary achievements were undermining the logical positivism that reigned for so long, and contending that philosophical problems do indeed exist, as opposed to Wittgensteinian language ‘puzzles’ that keep us from arriving at a true understanding of the world.

In my estimation, it seemed like both of the philosophers were jerks, as corroborated by the testimony of those closest to them! My final verdict, though, is that Popper was more resentful and angry than Wittgenstein, while Wittgenstein’s egoism seems to have been provoked by the insouciant philosophy and aloof, self-righteous inaction of higher academics. Wittgenstein may have viewed himself as a hero succoring philosophy from the hands of crooked and careless masters, validating the common man who needs practical understanding and hope to make better choices.

Fascinating story, and immensely helpful in breaking into big ideas.
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John From “The Akashic Experience” by Ervin Laszlo, 2009

“Larry Dossey is a physician of internal medicine and former chief of staff of Medical City Dallas...more
Sep 22, 2010 11:44am

Chris Yeah. I like that. I actually found that in excerpts from his "Tractatus". He compares the present to a geographical position from which one can view...more
updated Sep 22, 2010 12:26pm

Jan 23, 2009 Troy rated it 1 of 5 stars

Shelves: history

This book was incredibly vapid.

The book is a fluffy soap opera that doesn't attempt to seriously describe either man's thoughts, and what it did describe was subpar to any "Philosophers for Beginners" comic books. The authors' characterization of Wittgenstein vacillated between gross simplification to flat out wrong, yet not only did the authors mis-characterize Wittgenstein's work, but they failed to show how either Wittgenstein or Popper's philosophy changed philosophy (and the world) as we k...more

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Jun 26, 2012 Mark Russell rated it 5 of 5 stars

Shelves: philosophy-religion, history

A dual biography of two of the 20th century's most prominent philosophers, culminating in their infamous confrontation. Karl Popper and Ludwig Wittgenstein were equally brilliant opponents and when the two expatriate Austrians squared off at Cambridge's Moral Science Club in 1946, everyone piled into the room to watch the two toughest kids in school fight. Bertrand Russell held Popper's coat. GE Moore fanned Wittgenstein with a towel.

To Wittgenstein, the most revered philosopher of his generatio...more A dual biography of two of the 20th century's most prominent philosophers, culminating in their infamous confrontation. Karl Popper and Ludwig Wittgenstein were equally brilliant opponents and when the two expatriate Austrians squared off at Cambridge's Moral Science Club in 1946, everyone piled into the room to watch the two toughest kids in school fight. Bertrand Russell held Popper's coat. GE Moore fanned Wittgenstein with a towel.

To Wittgenstein, the most revered philosopher of his generation, philosophy was a conceit. A parlor game for large-brained primates, the problems of which were no more important than solving a Rubik's cube. Wittgenstein believed that all philosophical paradoxes were ultimately linguistic in nature and since language wasn't built on any sort of rational basis (an epiphany which came to him after being flipped off by a woman on a bicycle), you could never hope to flatten out the kinks which lay underneath the carpet.

To Popper, philosophical problems were not only real, they were largely what determined whether you would live on as an overpaid political science professor or be taken out to the killing fields and strangled to death by an eight-year-old as an enemy of the people. For several tense minutes, Popper spoke on the subject of whether philosophical problems really exist, while Wittgenstein listened in agitation, nervously stirring the logs in the fireplace. When he could stand it no more, he lifted his poker and dared Popper to name a single moral principle, to which Popper replied, "One shouldn't threaten a guest lecturer with a poker." Flummoxed, Wittgenstein fled the room while Russell mocked him by flapping his arms and clucking like a chicken.

Whether Popper really landed a haymaker on Wittgenstein or whether this was a case of "I'm leavin' cuz bitchez be jealous" depends largely who you talk to. Wittgenstein's acolytes who were present at the meeting insist that Popper tried to win a philosophical point with a personal cheap shot, while Popper's defenders say that Wittgenstein ran away because Popper's thesis was unassailable and that if he's going to be a baby, maybe someone ought to change his diapers.

In the end, Wittgenstein's Poker is less concerned with declaring a winner than with deconstructing the mythology which has grown around this philosophical slap-fight and to recognize the unique lives and contributions of both men. I found this book thoroughly enthralling throughout. The fact that it involves philosophers menacing each other with fireplace accessories is a bonus.(less)

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Sep 23, 2009 March rated it 4 of 5 stars

Read this book in Bulgarian. It was a present to my boyfriend by an American friend, but it turned out my boyfriend already had the exact same copy, so he gave this one to me.

The subject of this very thorough journalistic investigation seemed a bit strange and pretentious to me at first. How can you write a whole book about a ten-minute argument between two men (Wittgenstein and Popper). As I was getting further into the book though, I got more and more fascinated by the story - all the informa...more

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Jan 29, 2010 Pterodactyl rated it 3 of 5 stars

Not sure exactly what to say about this book. Unlike "Rousseau's Dog," the first book I read by this pair, this book left me... wanting more, I suppose. It could just be that it's harder to grasp the philosophy in this one. Hume is fairly deep, but I was already familiar with his ideas on causality when I read "Rousseau's Dog", and Rousseau is not especially hard to grasp either. But Wittgenstein... well, here's an anecdote from the book. Wittgenstein wrote his major work, the only one published...more

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Jul 28, 2011 Homer H Blass added it

An interesting study at several levels. First a comparison and contrast written for an educated but non-professional reader on the great debate between post-modernism and its critics. Second a very clear explanation of the ideas of Russell; Wittgenstein; and Popper ; their disagreements; agreements; and individual evolution of their thought. Third an attempt to make a new generation aware of Popper and his defense for an "open society" in an age when "political correctness' has been as stultifyi...more

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Apr 05, 2010 Erin rated it 3 of 5 stars

I could have skipped to chapter 18 and read to the end and been happy. I'm not interested in Popper (yawn) and the background information about Wittgenstein was oddly focused on the dullest things. It was interesting to learn of his association with Keynes--who has been getting a lot more media play these days because of the economic bailout. I'll probably read A Treatise on Probability now. It was kind of amusing to find out Wittgenstein admired Agatha Christie. (I think I chuckled.)

Starting in...more

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Apr 21, 2010 Michael rated it 4 of 5 stars

This is a rare book. A joy to read, very informative and rich and genuinely laugh out loud funny at points.

Two of the most influential philosophers of the 20th century, Wittgenstein and Popper, met only once, and for ten minutes, at a Cambridge philosophy club. The meeting was a heated one - a poker was brandished as a threat - or used to illustrate a point (depending on whose account you believe).

The philosophers who were present argue over what actually transpired, which in itself is an irony...more

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Jan 30, 2011 Tobinsfavorite rated it 3 of 5 stars

I'm kind of like the philosophy version of that stupid kid in middle school who asks, "But when am I ever going to use algebra, anyway?" I'm really not interested in philosophical discussion... except when I am. This is really a four-star book, but I'm only a three-star reader.

The book was very interesting and engaging, but can't be read in snippets while talking about pirate dinosaurs, so it took me rather a long time to read. It's full of names I'll never remember and arguments I didn't try to...more

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Jun 03, 2012 Duncan Berry rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: favorites, history, history-of-ideas, philosophy, vienna

When I first ran across this title it was in German which, to my mind, was peculiar due to the clearly British origins of the authors.

At any rate, having spent a post-grad year at the University of Vienna and having been enthralled with Toulmin and Janik's account of Wittgenstein's Vienna since the early '80s, I secured a copy of the German version and was unable to put it down until I had finished it! It was an exhilarating read, and as such, it was hardly an exercise in plumbing the depths of...more When I first ran across this title it was in German which, to my mind, was peculiar due to the clearly British origins of the authors.

At any rate, having spent a post-grad year at the University of Vienna and having been enthralled with Toulmin and Janik's account of Wittgenstein's Vienna since the early '80s, I secured a copy of the German version and was unable to put it down until I had finished it! It was an exhilarating read, and as such, it was hardly an exercise in plumbing the depths of either man's philosophy.

The book is emphatically not "about" philosophy; it is an historical-journalistic examination of a highly personal event regarding the confrontation of two men that involves the idea systems each appeared to represent at the brief moment in time. In other words, it is an effort to reconstruct what was a heated moment in a small room witnessed by a few people — and in so doing, the authors have retrospectively poured in all the information they have subsequently discerned about the two protagonists, their character, temperament and modus vivendi. Again, it is decidedly NOT a compare-and-contrast analytic exercise, pitting Wittgenstein against Popper, though that figures in the account. The reviewers who claim to be disappointed would be disappointed at the Pacific Ocean because despite being water, they can't drink from it. C'mon, people, all you had to do was read the book flaps.

That said, it exhibits the enjoyment of a heady thriller: conflict, intrigue and ideas. A pleasurable side-track for anyone who has had to wrestle with either or both, professionally or as an amateur. And it is on this basis, the very notion of writing a thriller about two cranky Austrian expatriate philosophers, that it merits my 5-star rating — sheer daring, ably written with a worthy token of intellectual effort.

At any rate, as luck would have it, the very week I finished the German edition, the English edition appeared on Amazon and I immediately snapped it up, reread it, and enjoyed it even more the second time through.

From a philosophical point of view, I have since consider that both Popper and Wittgenstein missed the boat, so to speak. Charles S. Peirce seems to have developed the most rigorous and realistic philosophical "system," but this is because I use Peirce on a professional basis.

But that's another story and another debate — one which has no need for brandishing fire irons or any other weapons!

If you understand German, you might enjoy this program —

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYOfWC...

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Jan 06, 2012 John E. Branch Jr. rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: philosophy, cultural-history

A short review I wrote for the Visual Bookshelf app on Facebook has now vanished with that app, and I hadn't saved the original text to my computer. Without trying to construct a new review some three years later, I can say this: The book is an enjoyable survey of a clash between two philosophical positions, which came to a head in a brief physical way one day at Cambridge. It won't be very rewarding for those who already have a good knowledge of Russell, Wittgenstein, Popper, and the like (as s...more

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Nov 28, 2009 Neil rated it 4 of 5 stars

This is a fascinating book, ostensibly about a 10 minute philosophical debate at Cambridge in 1946 between Ludwig Wittgenstein and Karl Popper. First, the book is an excellent example of how to pull off co-writing a text with someone. Second, what I found amazing was not the Cambridge debate, but the detailed discussion of W & P being descendents of assimilated Jewish families in Vienna who converted to Christianity and nevertheless had to deal with anti-Semitic racism in WWII. For those int...more

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Jul 07, 2011 Flannery rated it 4 of 5 stars

This book starts with an encounter between Wittgenstein and Popper which didn´t go well. From this starting point, the author-team describes the political, social and philosophical circumstances preparing and following this encounter.

For students of philosophy, the autobiographies of famous philosophers are normally not important. It may be interesting to read about the several illnesses of Nietzsche or about Kant´s most favourite dishes, but it should´t have an influence on the grasp of their...more This book starts with an encounter between Wittgenstein and Popper which didn´t go well. From this starting point, the author-team describes the political, social and philosophical circumstances preparing and following this encounter.

For students of philosophy, the autobiographies of famous philosophers are normally not important. It may be interesting to read about the several illnesses of Nietzsche or about Kant´s most favourite dishes, but it should´t have an influence on the grasp of their arguments. On the other hand, philosophers are historical figures and it is very interesting to see the historical development from this viewpoint. It is enlightening how Popper and Wittgenstein grew up in prewar Austria, how they faced the Anschluss, how they developed. And this is not a philosophical desription but rather a historcial and maybe a psychological one. The authors focus on the single encounter between Popper and Wittgenstein and try to explain what happened - they don´t try to induct the Privatsprachenargument from Wittgensteins social background. So their approach to Wittgenstein and Popper is legitimate, from my point of view.

So this book is really good, if you are interested in philosophy and/or history. Even if you´re studying philosphy and are more a accostumed to "professional" descriptions, you probably like this book. The philosophical descriptions may be for beginners and are therefore easy to understand, but they provide kind of an overview over the central topics which were at play in this short encounter. If you´re no philosopher, and that´s the target group of this book I think, you get a very understandable approach to problems like language, induction, and you even get a nice intro to the Wiener Kreis.

But the philosophical descripitions are only one part of the book, the other is the political and individual history. For example, the desriptions of every day life in Cambridge, so short after the war, are nostalgic and entertaining. What kind of eccentrics were to be found in Cambridge these days is really pretty funny. Where are they all gone?

Gone with them is the kind of philosophy which was practised in the 20th century. The philosophy I got to know is different - very specialised, not as confrontational, very professional. Nietzsche once devided philosophers into artists and workers (himself as an artist and Kant as a worker :-). Todays philosophers may all be workers (with the exeption of such enigmatic figures as Sloterdijk, ...) and I really don´t think this is negative. But the myth and glamour of philosophy lingers in the past. (less)

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Sep 25, 2012 fuzzgig rated it 2 of 5 stars

In this corner there is the charismatic and brash Wittgenstein. In the other corner it's the up and coming totalitarian killer Popper. Bertrand Russell is officiating. It's an epic battle: the irresistable force meets the immovable object. Well, maybe its more like an epic argument. Mmm, maybe a ten-minute series of connected statements meant to arrive at a conclusion. Well, not an argument but perhaps a raising of voices and a snide comment. Wait, there' more! Wiitgenstein slams a door! Okay, I...more

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Sep 16, 2012 Tim Ward rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: philosophy

A cheerful romp through the background and themes of Wittgenstein and Popper and their only meeting. Wittgenstein seems to have been an impossible bully, shouting down anyone who didn't speak in impossibly precise terms, while taking opacity to new heights himself. CS Lewis had a rather gentler tutor who operated on similar lines, and had learned all he had to offer by an early age - I think about twelve. Popper, also no slouch in the impossible stakes, has left us a key principle about the natu...more

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Mar 03, 2011 Holly rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: 2011-reads

Like Michael Frayn's Copenhagen, which reenacted a crucial argument between Heisenberg and Bohr. Lively and fun; perfectly structured - balancing scene-setting and hypothetical conjecture (the fraught encounter of Wittgenstein and Popper during a meeting of the Moral Science Club at postwar Cambridge), philosophical discussion (logical positivism, induction, language, philosophical puzzles vs. problems), and historical background (interwar Vienna and Jewish academics). Will help me better rememb...more

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Jul 29, 2011 Jason Burke Murphy rated it 5 of 5 stars

I am only seldom asked to recommend a book in philosophy. This is an excellent choice for someone who wants a bead on Ludwig Wittgenstein, who is typically the sort of philosopher one must understand much of in order to understand more of. Karl Popper's views of science and politics are also well-reviewed. The background for these two figures also provide a view of Vienna and Britain before, during, between, and after the two world wars.

This is the perfect book to take along a trip to Vienna or...more

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Jan 04, 2012 Orrin Grey rated it 3 of 5 stars

I found a paperback copy of this book among a random pile of $1 books in a small-town hardware store, of all places. I majored in philosophy (and English) in college, and I loved Wittgenstein, so I figured I'd give the book a read. It's a little bit all-over-the-place, and it's certainly heavier on history and sociology than philosophy, but it's an intriguing read if you've got an interest in the players, or in the history of philosophy at the time. Plus it's a quick read with a lot of fun anecd...more

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May 09, 2013 Eddy Allen rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: arts-and-historical

On October 25, 1946, in a crowded room in Cambridge, England, the great twentieth-century philosophers Ludwig Wittgenstein and Karl Popper came face to face for the first and only time. The meeting -- which lasted ten minutes -- did not go well. Their loud and aggressive confrontation became the stuff of instant legend, but precisely what happened during that brief confrontation remained for decades the subject of intense disagreement.

An engaging mix of philosophy, history, biography, and litera...more

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Apr 03, 2012 Karl rated it 5 of 5 stars Recommends it for: Philosophers, the Inquisitive, Biography Readers

Shelves: history, philosophy

This book centers around an exchange between Wittgenstein and Popper, an exchange which may be hyperbole, but is telling nonetheless. This exchange is used to investigate the history of both of these great philosophers who "now" find themselves on either side of a debtate. The reader examines their similarities, their differences and speculates how their life influences their philosophy.

The book is engaging and was quite enjoyable. Philosophers, biographers and causal readers alike can enjoy th...more

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Jun 17, 2010 David rated it 2 of 5 stars

Shelves: biography-memoir, philosophy

This was a fun book to read. As the title says, it tells the story of a brief argument between two of the 20th century's most influential philosophers: Karl Popper and Ludwig Wittgenstein. In telling the story of that argument, it becomes a biography, telling their individual stories: growing up in Vienna, living through the second world war, developing their ideas and so on. The bulk of the book is more biography, though near the end there are a few chapters on their philosophies. They disagree...more

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Jan 31, 2012 Niral rated it 3 of 5 stars

For several reasons, this book is worth reading, but it's not for everyone. The portraits of these two men--one clearly larger-than-life and the other aspiring to be so (in academia at least)--were fascinating and well-told. Their philosophical differences were also explained without dumbing them down too much. The book's structure was unique, although not universally a strength. I like the way the author began by teasing the drama of their famous 10-minute argument, but then delved into their b...more

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Oct 07, 2008 Mr. rated it 3 of 5 stars

Wittgenstein's Poker begins with the now legendary confrontation between philosophical heavyweights Ludwig Wittgenstein and Karl Popper, which allegedly resulted in Wittgenstein threatening the latter with a red hot poker before the very eyes of such big shots as Bertrand Russell. The book is an examination of the two intellectuals, their background in Vienna, further intellectual pursuits, and finally the classic confrontation. Occasionally the book comes across as an exercise in appealing to b...more

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Sep 04, 2009 Joshua Nomen-Mutatio rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: history, philosophy, biography-and-or-autobiography, sometimes-people-clash

I found the historical sketches which were basically book-ended with descriptions of "the poker incident" to be well worth the read. Very interesting little insights into the lesser known (or even thought of) effects of WWI and WWII. I learned some valuable things about European history, specifically the intellectual and political climate of Vienna leading up to and during WWII.

I also got some useful ideas through broad overviews of both Popper's and Wittgenstein's careers of their philosophica...more

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