Liars and Outliers: Enabling the Trust that Society Needs to Thrive by Bruce Schneier

Mar 19, 2013 James rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: computing, signed, i-own-a-copy, read-in-2012, read-in-teenties, non-fiction, 4-stars, reviewed, biased-opinion

Bruce Schneier is, according to the quote from the Register on the inside sleeve notes, "The closest thing the security industry has to a Rock Star." And, like the actor Chuck Norris, Schneier is the only other person I'm aware of who has his own 'facts' website. Listing page after page of dubious, but sometimes amusing, facts about Bruce's encryption super-powers. Although jokes about encryption probably have a fairly narrow audience Bruce Schneier Facts gives us my personal favourite: "Bruce S...more Bruce Schneier is, according to the quote from the Register on the inside sleeve notes, "The closest thing the security industry has to a Rock Star." And, like the actor Chuck Norris, Schneier is the only other person I'm aware of who has his own 'facts' website. Listing page after page of dubious, but sometimes amusing, facts about Bruce's encryption super-powers. Although jokes about encryption probably have a fairly narrow audience Bruce Schneier Facts gives us my personal favourite: "Bruce Schneier's mail server only sends him the emails' hashes, just to make things a little more interesting for him."

Initially the book appears to be quite a weighty tome, but the tone is light and conversational and the type is certainly not small. As soon as you get started you realise that the last third of the book is just notes and references. I would have preferred to see the notes spread more throughout the book. If the text is so unimportant that it was removed from the original manuscript, why did it need to be in the book at all. If it was important, or interesting, better to have it at the bottom of the page as a footnote. Having to flip back and forwards is annoying – and requires two bookmarks (which luckily I had).

The book is broken down into four parts, across which Schneier breaks down his theory of trust. Each part digs a little deeper than the one before. In the first, he explains what he means by trust and defines his terms. The second expands on this and Schneier explains how his trust works and doesn't within society. The third is the largest and uses uses examples to see how the trust models he's already given us behave. The last is where Schneier places his conclusions and predictions.

The premise is that society consists of people who comply with society's rules, and people who don't – hardly ground-breaking stuff so far. Societies survive by having more people who comply than not. That people comply for a number of reasons (which Schneier explains in part two); however, many of these reasons are becoming less effective as the size and technological levels of our societies change. As our communities increase in size we know the community less well, therefore we are less able to trust individuals and our ability to pressure them to comply decreases as well. As our use of technology increases, many non-complying behaviours become easier or more beneficial at the same time as our ability to secure those systems decreases.

While I did really like the book, and Schneier makes his case persuasively, the book can get a little repetitive at times. There are probably a few too many examples worked through, and too many repetition of Schneier's clarification that not all defectors are necessarily always doing the wrong thing – sometimes people can defect against society's rules because they are bad rules. That said, I was particularly intrigued by the example of professional cyclist Alex Zulle (the eternal second placer). He has since admitted doping, but the quotes in the book describe how he believed that he had to dope just to keep up with the other riders. Schneier gives us a high-level description of the arms-race between the dopers and the testers. All particularly interesting in light of the more recent charges against Lance Armstrong. He does touch upon the interesting point that in sport where the rules are don't have drugs in your system rather than don't take the drugs deliberately, athletes can end up serving bans either as a result of accidents or even deliberate attempts to 'nobble' an athlete.

Ultimately, while fascinating, the book felt like it lacked an ending. It may be more that Schneier had already laid out his conclusions during the book anyway, but it didn't feel like it really offered any solutions or real predictions for where the problems with trust either are now, or are going next.

I did pay for this book with my own good money, but it's only fair to point out that I did receive a very generous discount from the author in exchange for my fairly vague promise to write a review of it somewhere. It would seem perverse to cheat the author of a book on how trust works in society out of that promise. So, some months later, this is that review.(less)

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Dec 21, 2012 Alan rated it 4 of 5 stars Recommends it for: Competing interests

Recommended to Alan by: Reputation; Roberta

This may be one of the most important books you'll never read.

In Liars and Outliers, Bruce Schneier (known—and with good reason—to The Register as "The closest thing the security industry has to a rock star") has produced a remarkably clear-eyed and dispassionate assessment of one of the most critical issues facing the human species—the fact that the notions of trust and security that served us well enough when we were scattered tribes of hunters and farmers do not scale up to the numbers and ki...more

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Nov 28, 2012 Breakingviews rated it 4 of 5 stars

Review of "Liars and Outliers" and Jonathan Haidt's "The Righteous Mind" by Martin Langfield

Without trust, society splits into warring tribes and parasites prosper. The financial crisis of 2008 is a powerful example of what can happen when individuals or small groups set their own gain above the common good. Meanwhile, the U.S. debt debate shows how political polarization can lead to potentially crippling paralysis.

People are moral creatures, social psychologist Jonathan Haidt writes in “The Ri...more Review of "Liars and Outliers" and Jonathan Haidt's "The Righteous Mind" by Martin Langfield

Without trust, society splits into warring tribes and parasites prosper. The financial crisis of 2008 is a powerful example of what can happen when individuals or small groups set their own gain above the common good. Meanwhile, the U.S. debt debate shows how political polarization can lead to potentially crippling paralysis.

People are moral creatures, social psychologist Jonathan Haidt writes in “The Righteous Mind.” Citing brain research, evolutionary psychology and the social sciences, Haidt says successful societies use a shared sense of morality to bind citizens to the common good. In a broad sense, religion has been a highly effective tool for building social cohesion and trust. Security expert Bruce Schneier, who charts similar ground in his book “Liars & Outliers,” largely agrees.

Yet people’s moral reactions - feelings of disgust at cheaters and freeloaders, for example - can serve to blind and well as bind. Conservatives may be working from a different moral palette to the one used by the political left. The result, Haidt writes, can be a dialogue of the deaf. Some groups - “Occupy Wall Street” protesters or Obamacare supporters, for example - are motivated by concerns about fairness and sympathy for victims and underdogs. Meanwhile others - like social conservatives and free-market enthusiasts - have a broader set of concerns.

Conservatives, Haidt says, are not immune to questions of fairness, protecting the weak and fighting oppression. But they are also motivated by moral concerns that barely register - or may even be considered immoral - on the left.

Sections of his book could almost have been titled “How a left-leaning academic atheist came to see that conservatives are not just plain wrong.” Haidt lists the “conservative” moral concerns as: loyalty and betrayal; authority and subversion; and sanctity and degradation. Taken to an extreme, these moral motivators can trigger highly tribal and divisive behavior, as seen in controversies over abortion, flag-burning, or excesses in the U.S. response to the attacks of 9/11.

Yet Haidt notes conservatives have an innate ability to appeal to a broader cross-section of people over such concerns, and a cohesive society should address them all. His book is, in part, a plea for Americans on the polarized left and right to understand how each side thinks and reacts in moral terms. Rebuilding trust will serve the common good.

If Schneier agrees with Haidt about the usefulness of moral pressure in keeping groups cohesive and cooperative, he also makes the salutary point that it is impossible - and undesirable - to produce completely compliant societies.

No home, computer system or society can be made entirely safe from attack or subversion, he writes, and trying to do so can end up being counter-productive. Individuals who secede from the values of the society around them may be parasitical - think of self-interested financiers flogging bad mortgages in the 2008 financial meltdown. But they may equally be catalysts of necessary change, as in the Arab Spring or campaigns against slavery. In a police state, as in a failed state, trust is dead, Schneier says. To be healthy, every society needs a few defectors.(less)

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Nov 21, 2012 John Schwabacher rated it 3 of 5 stars

Note: The edition I read has the subtitle Enabling the Trust That Society Needs to Thrive.

My good friend Jim Wiggins recommended this book highly. I found it interesting and very logical, but not earth-shattering. I did find myself wondering if that is because I haven't dealt with the issues involved before and just don't realize the contribution he's making.

Everything is laid out in a very logical structure.
Bruce Schneier discusses trust as a necessary part of society and points out how much we...more

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Oct 05, 2012 Nilesh rated it 2 of 5 stars

The book effectively theorizes that almost all real life activities are an expression of "trust" or "security". Adam Smith would claim all real life activities as an effort to further economic interest. Richard Dawkins would make them an evolution thing. Some pope might believe in the religious meanings and some Plato in moral. All these might be valid even if narrow perspectives from particular vantage points, except that trust/security is exceptionally uninteresting, ridiculously narrow and of...more

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Sep 16, 2012 Yune rated it 3 of 5 stars

I think you'll lean toward this one or not depending on how the subject matter interests you: what impetus is there for societies and communities to function together for the common good? What about those (defectors) who don't follow the rules or prefer to pursue their own selfish profit?

Full of bullet points and pro-con charts, this book leans toward pedagogical in tone, although it's fairly approachable. (I'd call it easy to read as opposed to enjoyable.) Its view is a bit self-admittedly simp...more

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Sep 11, 2012 Duncan rated it 5 of 5 stars

http://blogofdunkle.blogspot.ca/2012/...

A new book from Bruce Schneier - the man who coined the term security theatre that has since made it's way into the mainstream lexicon.

In short - Liars & Outliers is good - really good. Schneier comes from a computer security background, but he has gone much bigger picture with this book. Fundamentally it's a book about trust - why we trust each other, what mechanisms we have in society to ensure that we do trust each other, and how these fail sometime...more

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Jul 25, 2012 Henk-Jan van der Klis rated it 4 of 5 stars

Bruce Schneier collected wisdom from several disciplines to Liars & Outliers: enable the trust that society needs to thrive. My legends from Economics class, the principal-agent problem, Prisoner’s Dilemma, Coase‘s ceiling. Psychological experiments on trick or treat, personal versus group interest, self interest versus the sake of others. Societal dilemmas fill up this book: from overfishing, tax payments, whistle blowers, Wikileaks to child molestation en garment pricing strategies.
In gene...more Bruce Schneier collected wisdom from several disciplines to Liars & Outliers: enable the trust that society needs to thrive. My legends from Economics class, the principal-agent problem, Prisoner’s Dilemma, Coase‘s ceiling. Psychological experiments on trick or treat, personal versus group interest, self interest versus the sake of others. Societal dilemmas fill up this book: from overfishing, tax payments, whistle blowers, Wikileaks to child molestation en garment pricing strategies.
In general you trust a lot of people, organizations, governments and other groups. Nothing in society works without trust. When trust fails or is breached, punishment, security measures, moral pressure are brought in. These measures costs us an awful lot of money. The world would be a much better place if we could trust each other without restrictions. Corporate responsibility, global warming, and our moribund political system wouldn’t bother us anymore. Current problems as greedy banks versus robbers, Hollywood celebrities versus downloaders, or even the Iranian secret police (or the officials in Yemen, Libya or Syria) against democracy activists, security is often a dynamic struggle between a majority who want to impose their will, and a minority who want to push the boundaries. Was the invasian in Iraq OK? What about the US supporting rebels that are anti-US and anti-Israel? And, closer to home: does it matter whether you vote or not at the next election? Are you willing the high price for the clothes you want early in the season, or wait for a lower price, risking unavailability?
Bruce Schneier is an internationally renowned security technologist who studies the human side of security. He is the author of eleven books; and hundreds of articles, essays, and academic papers. He has testified before Congress, is a frequent guest on television and radio, and is regularly quoted in the press. His blog and monthly newsletter at www.schneier.com reach over devoted 250,000 devoted readers world-wide. Liars & Outliers is definitely an insightful and entertaining book.(less)

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Jun 19, 2012 Bryan Murdock rated it 3 of 5 stars

I was excited to read this book by the legend himself (http://www.schneierfacts.com/). The ideas are important, but it felt like death by examples reading this. The whole book is basically this: present a point and then tell 100 different little stories that back up the point and make it more clear, and then, if like me, you can't resist a good footnote you get about 100 more stories for each point. Many of the stories where interesting and did help bring the points home, but man oh man, for me...more

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Apr 16, 2012 Scott rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: owned-physical, security

I've read Schneier's work online at his blog, so when I saw he was publishing a book, I said "Sure! He writes well, discusses topics relevant to my interests in security and process."

Reading this, I got a wonderful 101 book that collects a wide breadth of theories, generalizations, and examples of how society works and balances the need to create norms, maintain norms, and pervert those norms to innovate, as well as how the parasites who take advantage of those norms exist.

Unfortunately, I was r...more

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Feb 19, 2012 Michael Burnam-fink rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: 2012

When I heard that the author of the absolutely brilliant Secrets and Lies was turning his slantwise gaze from computer networks to society as a whole, I was excited. These days, security is a big business, and problems of insecurity bedevil the future. Schneier lays out his framework for how trust is required modern society function, and how the liars and outliers of the title abuse trust for their own advantage.

It is not that this is a bad book, but it is very general. Yes, we use morality, rep...more

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Mar 07, 2012 Eduardo Santiago rated it 4 of 5 stars

It feels slightly disturbing to read this book so soon after Fukuyama's Trust and even more so the same week that This American Life aired episode 459, What Kind of Country, in which they chronicle disturbing societal breakdowns. Schneier covers trust, tradeoffs, more (and more interesting!) Prisoner's Dilemma discussion than any three books on Game Theory, evolutionary theory, economics, politics, current affairs.

What I found most interesting was his frank discussion of scaling problems: Trust...more

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Feb 24, 2013 Curtis rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: 2013-plan, nonfiction, science, philosophy, politics, economics

I'm a fan of Bruce Schneier, I've followed his blog for years, and I enjoy his moderate and practical approach to various security issues. So when he offered signed copies of his latest book at a discounted price in exchange for a review, I jumped at the opportunity.

Overall, I quite enjoyed this book. Perhaps because I'm already familiar, and agree, with many of his ideas, I didn't find too many surprising ideas here. Nonetheless, Schneier does a great job of laying out a broad, fairly consiste...more I'm a fan of Bruce Schneier, I've followed his blog for years, and I enjoy his moderate and practical approach to various security issues. So when he offered signed copies of his latest book at a discounted price in exchange for a review, I jumped at the opportunity.

Overall, I quite enjoyed this book. Perhaps because I'm already familiar, and agree, with many of his ideas, I didn't find too many surprising ideas here. Nonetheless, Schneier does a great job of laying out a broad, fairly consistent framework for looking at how people cooperate and, if the title is meant to indicate a theme, "defect" from various forms of pressure meant to induce that cooperation.

From a wide-angle view, the only book-wide criticism I have is with terminology. For example, Schneier uses the word "defect" (and its variants) to indicate someone who goes against a particular type of pressure meant to induce cooperation. In this taxonomy, both airplane hijackers and people who hid their Jewish neighbors from Nazi soldiers are considered "defectors." I don't think it's a major detraction from the ideas he presents, but in a few cases it requires a moment to suss out how the actor is defecting. Schneier even makes a few comments about the oddity of the terminology, such as in Chapter 14 where he writes, "The police...implement societal pressures against a broad array of competing norms. (Okay, I admit it. That's an odd way to describe arresting people who commit crimes against people and propety.)" That said, Schneier is certainly no James Carse, whose propensity to redefine terms is distracting at best.

Actually, not to contradict the paragraph above, where I think Schneier excels is in his ability to simplify concepts and demonstrate their applicability without stripping away too much of their complexity. He shows common links across a broad range of topics — from interpersonal interactions to business transactions to governmental regulation to the spread of religious ideas. He examines each of these by look at each idea from a host of angles, relying on everything from the evolution, psychology, economics, game theory and, of course, his own background as a security expert.

It's relatively quick read (I read it in three sittings), and certainly worth taking the time for anyone who spends any time thinking critically about how and why people choose whether to cooperate.(less)

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Feb 22, 2012 Matt Brown rated it 3 of 5 stars

An interesting read, but nothing ground breaking if you're a following of Bruce Schneier's blog or have read any of his opinion columns regarding trust and security.

The book covers the concepts of trust, and security and examines our natural instincts in relation to these often fail in the face of new technology and the growth of society. Much time is spent examining various difficult to solve social dilemmas in the context of this, and the introduction of background material from the fields of...more

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Mar 23, 2012 Darrenglass rated it 4 of 5 stars

Bruce Schneier started his professional life as a cryptographer, and over the years has broadened and broadened his interests -- first to computer security more generally, and now to the concept of 'security' in a very very broad setting, including airport security and online security and much much more. In this book, Schneier considers at great length how we choose who to trust and how we coerce people to act trustworthy. The book touches on economics, psychology, politics, philosophy, and (yes...more

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Nov 22, 2012 Paul Bonamy rated it 4 of 5 stars

Liars and Outliers isn't about how to 'fix' society. Nor is it about detecting when we're being conned, or, necessarily, how to protect oneself from confidence men or savvy scammers. Liars and Outliers is about something rather more fundamental: trust. In order for society to flourish - be it a small farming community or the vast, global society we're developing now - people have to be able to trust one another to do the 'right' thing, whatever that is, most of the time. We have to work together...more Liars and Outliers isn't about how to 'fix' society. Nor is it about detecting when we're being conned, or, necessarily, how to protect oneself from confidence men or savvy scammers. Liars and Outliers is about something rather more fundamental: trust. In order for society to flourish - be it a small farming community or the vast, global society we're developing now - people have to be able to trust one another to do the 'right' thing, whatever that is, most of the time. We have to work together, or society collapses. However, while society as a whole needs people to cooperate, individuals can often do better - in the short run at least - by defecting, by putting their own self-interest ahead of that of the people around them. If individual defection is so worthwhile, and society is so dependent on people not defecting, how is it we managed to develop society at all?

Schneier starts his discussion of society with hawks and doves. Not the birds themselves, but a simplified model of them: doves are willing to share limited resources, whereas hawks will take what they need by force. Doves cooperate, hawks defect. By tuning the value of defection - and cooperation - as compared to the costs associated with either, we can vary the number of hawks and doves in the overall population - make cooperating more valuable, or defecting more dangerous, and you get fewer hawks. Make it easier to defect without facing real consequences and hawks abound. This is a simplistic model of behavior to be sure, but it reveals something important: there is no way to eliminate hawks entirely - the only way to keep hawks out is for there never to have been any. So, the question isn't "how do we put a stop to Undesirable Behavior X?" but "how do we keep the incidence of Undesirable Behavior X to some reasonable minimum?"

If we know everyone around us intimately - we're family in a tiny village - then figuring out who to trust is easy. We already know cousin Alice is good people, but uncle Bob shouldn't be left along with anything valuable. This doesn't scale though: the number of people a single human can know that well is too small to deal with even a largish small town, let alone a nation. So, society need other pressures it can put into play to twiddle the dials and make cooperation more easy, defection more difficult, and generally allow us to trust each other.

Schneier proposes four major categories of societal pressure, which differ primarily in the scale at which they can operation effectively. From smallest scale to largest, these are: moral pressures, reputational pressures, institutional pressures, and security systems. Moral pressures take of the form "if I cheat Alice, I'll feel bad", and can be all you need in a small community, but break down quickly with scale. I know Bob is a 'good' person, so I can trust him to do the 'right thing'. Reputation trades knowing someone for knowing of them - the trust is less direct, but if I trust Bob, and he trusts Alice, I can probably trust her, too. Beyond morals and reputation, society can set up institutions (like the police) whose purpose it is to enforce common values. We don't need to trust random strangers, we just need to trust the institutions are doing their job. Security systems can help to enhance the scale of all of these pressures, in addition to simply making defection harder - consider how a locked door makes stealing things harder.

Liars and Outliers is split into four major sections. The first lays out the science behind trust, and generally sets the stage for the following discussion. Part two focuses on each of the categories of pressure, showing how they operate and how they can, in some circumstances, be defeated. Part three highlights the complications introduced by examining societal dilemmas in the wider world, and pays particular attention to how conflicts between different sets of societal pressures can result in effectively forcing a defection. Finally, part four discusses ways pressures fail, how technology reinforces - and undermines - societal pressures, and how all of that plays into society's need to adapt to a rapidly changing future. The book also features a robust set of side notes, and what appears to be a comprehensive list of references.

It's worth noting that Liars and Outliers is not the culmination of years of detailed research presented as part of a comprehensive (and comprehensively documented) model for trust in human societies. Instead, it draws from disparate fields, roping in just enough detail to present its ideas and then handwaving away details or distinctions that aren't really necessary to that point. Liars and Outliers is, at its heart, a snapshot of, and beginning point for, a discussion of how society engenders the trust it needs to function, how that trust can be undermined, and what precautions we need to take to make sure we don't swamp the good we wish to do in unintended consequences. It's a starting point for thought, for discussion, and most excellent in that capacity. I highly recommend Liars and Outliers to anyone interested in the intersection of trust, security, and society as a whole.(less)

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Jun 10, 2012 Jack rated it 3 of 5 stars

I'm a Bruce Schneier fan. I read his blog regularly and I think he's one of the smartest and most forward thinking security experts working today. I bought this book without even looking.

Perhaps I should have. It wasn't what I expected and because of that, I was let down and disappointed. Which reflects in my low rating. It's certainly a well written book and well researched and makes very good points. Too bad it wasn't very interesting to me.

Schneier normally writes about security, and his bl...more I'm a Bruce Schneier fan. I read his blog regularly and I think he's one of the smartest and most forward thinking security experts working today. I bought this book without even looking.

Perhaps I should have. It wasn't what I expected and because of that, I was let down and disappointed. Which reflects in my low rating. It's certainly a well written book and well researched and makes very good points. Too bad it wasn't very interesting to me.

Schneier normally writes about security, and his blog is pretty much only about security. He talks a lot about how we fail dramatically at security, using irrational emotional responses rooted in our evolutionary past to respond to statistically unlikely threats today. I find this extremely interesting, as I think our overreaction to things like 9/11 have caused us a great loss of time, money, and freedom. I also think that it's actually made us less safe by focusing on events and attacks that will probably never happen and exposing us to attacks that always do. For instance, many of us choose to drive today, either out of fear of terrorism or the hassle of dealing with the TSA. This is a much more dangerous mode of travel, and as a result, the increased traffic load has killed more people each year than died on 9/11.

But that's not what this book is about. It's about trust. It's about how we evolved trust and how society uses rules to enforce it. It talks about why we can allow a plumber in our home and reasonably know that even though he's a stranger, he's not going to rob us. It talks about how he can take money from us (or a check) and know that it's not counterfeit and that the bank or the government will honor the valuation of it. A little different focus than I expected, and unfortunately, I never engaged with the book. I don't know if it's because I ultimately found the information presented to be dry and boring or if I just kept expecting the Bruce Schneier I know and love from his blog to eventually show up. I finished the book, but I didn't enjoy it.

That's really a shame. I feel the book deserves more than three stars. You might really enjoy it. There's nothing I can say that's wrong with the book because it is expertly crafted, holds very deep and insightful information, and yet is very easy to understand. That's very difficult, and I even gave the book an extra star just because I don't underestimate how difficult it is to write a very technical and complex book in language that just about anyone can understand. Few authors can achieve that. However, this is my review, not someone else's. The fact is, I just didn't enjoy the book and I won't be re-reading it. For that reason alone, I really can't give it more than three stars. I'm very sorry Bruce. If I ever cross paths with you, I hope you won't hold it against me.

I should have read Beyond Fear, honestly, as that appears to be the book I thought I was reading. It's next on my list. (less)

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Jan 26, 2012 Jur rated it 4 of 5 stars

We learn to trust strangers from a very young age. Not just uncles, cousins and neighbours, but also teachers, policemen, doctors and even newsreaders on TV. Compared to our ancestors and other animal species, humans have raised trust to unknown heights. Bruce Schneier , in his new book Liars & Outliers, takes us on a tour of how that trust came to be, how it manages to work in the majority of cases and why it doesn’t work in the rest.

Schneier uses Francis Fukuyama’s definition of trust, whi...more

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May 05, 2012 Josh Hamacher rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

It pains me slightly to rate this book three stars, as I've been a fan of Bruce Schneier for years. I've subscribed to his newsletter since at least 1999 and enjoyed every issue. Unfortunately this book reads like a newsletter article that has been stretched, through repetition, to the length of a short book.

It's very well-written and is a fast read; Schneier has a real knack for explaining potentially complicated concepts clearly and simply. The thesis, that societies and organizations apply a...more

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Apr 25, 2012 Mike Klein rated it 3 of 5 stars

Sort of interesting book, but with some significant problems. First of all the book is a very academic study of trust in relationship to society. And while the author attempts to make it occasionally entertaining, it mostly ends up as dry as your average text book. Second, the author attempts to make a case for rational "goodness" without really making his case. Finally and maybe most troubling, there is nothing actionable in this book. This book makes a case that trust is both necessary and pre...more

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Mar 26, 2012 Ruben rated it 3 of 5 stars

To be honest, this is the first Schneier book I've read, other than just excerpts or essays. I don't know if it was supposed to be like that, but there's so much theorization of the subject of trust (none of it groundbreaking), yet a good one. I appreciate the fact that is able to break matters like trust, security, social pressure and defection into more visible components, and at the end gives you a good insight on how to analyze problems about security in the real world.

The notes section is h...more

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Jul 06, 2012 Dmitry rated it 3 of 5 stars

Shelves: popular-science

Getting a hold of this book is the natural thing for everyone who knows something about computer security - and about the most famous author and personality in the field. The book is different though in that it is not about computer security (at least, most of it isn't), it's about trust and lack thereof. It's an extensive, almost scholarly rigorous exploration of the topic of trust. However, sometimes there are lapses, and certain topics are hand-waved away, were obvious objections to the autho...more

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Dec 27, 2012 Spi rated it 4 of 5 stars

Really informative look at the what helps members of society act rationally and allows society to function. Schneier explains many of the commons models of trust that exist at different layers of society and provides examples of each. I would have preferred to have the examples be a little more in depth and most of them were covered at a very high level. I guess that would make this a good jumping off point to other books which go in depth on any of the failures mentioned in the book. Overall I...more

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Jan 20, 2012 John rated it 3 of 5 stars

Sterlingcindysu lent me this ARC. As a consultant, a former employer once told me that all we have to sell is "trust". I learned he was right. Now, this book slices and dices the concept of trust, what it means, how it works and how it doesn't work, what are benefits, the limits and threats (i.e., the issue of security). Lots of tidbits of psych and other research takes you deeper into an issue you thought you understood, but really didn't. The book is methodical and a bit dry, but not overly te...more

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Nov 21, 2012 Sam Beer rated it 4 of 5 stars

Liars and Outliers is most fundamentally a book about trust. It addresses why we want to trust people, how we benefit from trusting people, who we can trust, who we can't trust, and--at greatest length--how societies ensure that enough people can be trusted to make the benefits of trusting people outweigh the risks of trusting people.

After introducing the topic and defining terms, Schneier provides a theoretical account of the forces that prompt cooperative behavior. After introducing the topic...more Liars and Outliers is most fundamentally a book about trust. It addresses why we want to trust people, how we benefit from trusting people, who we can trust, who we can't trust, and--at greatest length--how societies ensure that enough people can be trusted to make the benefits of trusting people outweigh the risks of trusting people.

After introducing the topic and defining terms, Schneier provides a theoretical account of the forces that prompt cooperative behavior. After introducing the topic and defining terms, Schneier establishes four levels of pressure--moral pressure, reputational pressure, institutional pressure, and security. He then discusses at length both how these levels of pressure bring about cooperation and how these levels of pressure fail to bring about cooperation in societies.

Among the more interesting discussions:

The different levels of pressure scale differently--reputational pressures, for instance, are effective in small societies, but are much less effective in very large societies.

Not all agents are individuals. Different forces are needed to cause a collective agent (like a corporation or an institution) to act cooperatively than to cause an individual agent to act cooperatively.

Perhaps most crucially, no society will ever have cooperation rates of 100%--and it's not clear that such a society would even be desirable. Defection--behavior that does not conform to the societal norms--is what essentially moves a society forward.

The book provides an overview of a broad field. That was nice for somebody like me, as I have no background in the field of security. The arguments were clear and well-illustrated. The book is a little bit redundant--the core points are reiterated quite extensively in the interest of clarity. It seems like this has bothered some reviewers more than it bothered me. The writing is interesting, the examples are clear, and the subject matter is made interesting for somebody who wasn't already interested in it.(less)

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Jan 24, 2013 Wayne McCoy rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: non-fiction-business

How much security do you need to be safe? To keep your data safe? What is an acceptable cost or response? 'Liars and Outliers' by Bruce Schneier is an excellent book on the subject of security that approaches it from a different angle than most. While many books discuss the subject from a technical systems approach, this one uses a sociological and philosophical approach.

The book begins with a discussion of trust and the systems needed to underlie it. We need to trust many things in a given day:...more

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Jan 05, 2013 Mike rated it 4 of 5 stars

In his latest book Mr. Schneier explores the trust systems that have been built over the centuries that have made our complex society possible.

We've gone from a personalized trust system where we personally knew most people we interacted with. Small tribal societies where survival depended on each tribe memeber and each member knowing who will do what to help the tribe survive.

Then to societies where specialization developed. We knew most people we dealt with. We knew our storekeeper, our phar...more In his latest book Mr. Schneier explores the trust systems that have been built over the centuries that have made our complex society possible.

We've gone from a personalized trust system where we personally knew most people we interacted with. Small tribal societies where survival depended on each tribe memeber and each member knowing who will do what to help the tribe survive.

Then to societies where specialization developed. We knew most people we dealt with. We knew our storekeeper, our pharmacist, our plumber and neighbor.

To our current soceity where many people we interact with are unknown to us. We call a toll free number and a plumber shows up, we buy something on the internet from someone a continent away and we've never met.

He describes how institutionalized trust systems have been built to allow our current society to function. Trust systems such as laws, and intermediate brokers such as PayPal.

When we buy a gallon of 87 octane gas we don't test it or measure it, we just take it for granted that we got what we paid for. In large part because of a sticker on the pump saying someone tested it for accuracy and there are laws and snactions for people or businesses who violate this trust. If for some reason we suspect that we didn't get what we paid for there are systems to bring them into compliance.

Which is the second part of his book. Outliers or defectors of society and how they're necessary. They force us to be somewhat aware of the flaws in the systems, which cause them to improve, to patch holes or develop better (or at least different) trust systems. They also challange the assumptions of society.

Yes, many are the criminals in our jails and prisons, but many are also the ones who have made society grow. They challenged the way society treated women and blacks, and now, homosexuals. They find chinks in our digital armor or push for newer and cleaner ways to provide energy. Without the outliers we would have little to no growth and change in soceity.

He describes the need, function and history of trust systems as well as the need for the outliers.(less)

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Sep 06, 2012 Rose rated it 4 of 5 stars

Shelves: netgalley, non-fiction

The first chapters of Liars and Outliers: Enabling the Trust That Society Needs to Thrive by Bruce Schneier, a book about the how and why of trust in today's world, were tough going but the balance of the book is well worth the effort. The work seems to be a psychological/sociological description and explanation of how trust comes to be. It seems to be a philosophical work as the author puts forth his ideas about how "defection" from the group expectations can be a positive and/or a negative - f...more

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Apr 26, 2012 Sdluvingit rated it 3 of 5 stars

I've been reading a bit in the area of evolutionary psychology recently and thinking about the nature and current state of group interactions. The political and social climate in the US seems to be about as bad as it ever has been and the level of disillusion in institutions and lack of trust between groups seems to be growing exponentially. So, in light of these thought processes, I came across Bruce Schneier's book talking about trust in today's world and how security, the lack of or excessive...more I've been reading a bit in the area of evolutionary psychology recently and thinking about the nature and current state of group interactions. The political and social climate in the US seems to be about as bad as it ever has been and the level of disillusion in institutions and lack of trust between groups seems to be growing exponentially. So, in light of these thought processes, I came across Bruce Schneier's book talking about trust in today's world and how security, the lack of or excessive, contributes to or hinders this trust.

He examines societal dilemmas and develops a useful framework in discussing how various parts of society interact and how trust is generated and maintained. His framework involves determining the particular dilemma facing a society or group, defines the group, defines the group interest and the competing interest or interests, breaks down how the society or group enforces conformity to the group interests and the influences competing to cause defection from the group which may include self-interest or other group loyalties. Particularly interesting is how he categorizes the group methods of enforcing or influencing conformity; these include moral, reputational, institutional, and technological. His focus is mainly how security, mostly technological, supports the trust levels within a group and by limiting the number of defectors maintains the society/group cohesion but also points out that excessive security can be too costly.

Drawing on a number of disciplines and by taking an in-dept look at each portion of this framework Schneier brings us to an understanding of the underlying causes of our current issues. He also points out that these issues are not unique through history and that there have been other periods of great societal upheaval. However, we are at a unique cusp of human history in that social groups and interaction have expanded to a global level, our rate of knowledge is growing exponentially, and change is happening at an ever increasing rate. Technology is feeding this ever increasing rate of change and level of defection but only by the use technology can we maintain trust and thus maintain the greater societies. To adequately use technology as a positive tool we need to understand at a deep level the forces pulling on the society or group and make determinations in balancing our need for trust and cohesion and security with our other desires such as freedom and individual self-actualization. Too little security and the defectors devour the groups, too much security and individuals' desires and needs are suffocated.

Schneier leaves us with the optimistic hope that we will get through these times, that defectors are necessary for social change to occur and for societies to grow and prosper; in today's world we are all interconnected and dependent on the larger group. The last sentence of the book is a quote from MLK, “The arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice.” This book has given me much to think about and I recommend it highly.
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Jan 01, 2013 Kari rated it 4 of 5 stars

One of the main reasons I enjoy reading Schneier's take on security is that he has become very technology-agnostic and has started to borrow tools from economics to solve security problems. Secrets and Lies was still very much about information security but by the middle of Beyond Fear Schenier had realized that security is more about society than just technology. In Liars and Outliers, Schneier builds a multi-disciplinary framework that centers on society and the trust within. In this model, se...more One of the main reasons I enjoy reading Schneier's take on security is that he has become very technology-agnostic and has started to borrow tools from economics to solve security problems. Secrets and Lies was still very much about information security but by the middle of Beyond Fear Schenier had realized that security is more about society than just technology. In Liars and Outliers, Schneier builds a multi-disciplinary framework that centers on society and the trust within. In this model, security systems are just a way to scale trust in a more globalized world - and important aspect, but by far not the only one.

The book offers two refreshing takes on security and trust. Firstly, as Schenier has often pointed out, security is both a process and a trade-off. The other is that it infeasible and impossible to totally evade risks. This is a welcome point of view against the more common view of of looking at security as a purely technlogical system, a machine that can be perfected. Humans, even as an aggregate society, are much softer and more complex, and have evolutionary baggage that affect our ability to make rational decisions. One of the problems is that in a world of competing interests, it's not easy to strike a balance.

In Liars and Outliers, Schneier uses human cooperation (as understood by economics) as the start point for his analysis. Trust and security emerge from the need to make cooperation work and do not exist in isolation. This way, he is able to avoid the trap of suboptimization of the problems presented in the book. The favorite example for Schenier seems to be air travel, not only because few of the changes after 9/11 and other threats have actually made anyone safe and because it involves many of the psychological biases that make humans bad at assessing risk. As such, this is a security researcher's take on behavioral economics and the parallels with, for example, Thaler & Sunstein's Nudge or Akerlof's Animal Spirits are notable. To see what happens when the trust mechanisms break, one can read books like Bakan's The Corporation or any book on the causes of the recent financial crisis.

The way I interpreted Schenier's main message is that the reason trust and security break in today's world is that Internet and globalization in general have caused unprecented "security gap" and the society has not yet been able to respond to the new environment. However, the threat is not that the attackers (or defectors) will keep the upper hand but that the society will make unwise decisions in effort to narrow the gap. Instead of focusing on liquids and underwear on a plane, the efforts should be directed at intelligence, investigation and emergency response instead. As a reader of Schenier's blog, this is a view that he often stresses but I think he doesn't do as good job in this book. He does, however, explain why the practice of focusing on the last way of attack as way of making sure that at least that specific attack never happens is so natural for any organization (or, agent) who values its own survival.

Another interesting part in the book was about how private corporations are taking over traditional institutions and how that will affect society. He sees many dangers when profit-oriented companies dictate the rules instead of the society deciding on them. A good example of this is Facebook, which has quickly become an institution in our society. It's becoming harder and harder not to be part of that social network and yet the users have very little to say about how their data is used or what a "Like" means in the system.

At its core, the book is mostly about decision making and the society. Coming from decision making and behavioral economics background, there was not that much new for me in this book. However, his arguments on how there will always be defectors in any society, there will always be murders and theft, and that it's society's role to set the level of defection we're comfortable is something I very much agree with. While this might sound a bit pessimistic, it's just a fact of life, and Schneier makes a good case at the end of the book how a functioning society needs outliers and defectors.

This is not, however, Schneier's best book. I do recommend reading Liars & Outliers, but it's main challenge is that it's an introductory text (it's easily approachable for any reader) written in an academic tone. The book stays very general and its only concrete new offering is a model to assess societal dilemmas. I believe this is because unlike in previous books, here Schneier isn't the resident guru of the topic matter at hand. The reason I really want to like this book is that I would welcome other people to take such a multi-disciplinary view on the society. The challenges our societies face in the brave new world of globalization are huge and broader takes on the issues at hand are needed. Schneier's take on what part trust plays in the society is exactly that.(less)

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