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The Guns of the South

3.92 of 5 stars 3.92 · rating details · 3,511 ratings · 217 reviews

"It is absolutely unique--without question the most fascinating Civil War novel I have ever read."
Professor James M. McPherson
Pultizer Prize-winning BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM
January 1864--General Robert E. Lee faces defeat. The Army of Northern Virginia is ragged and ill-equpped. Gettysburg has broken the back of the Confederacy and decimated its manpower.
Then, Andries Rhoodie...more

ebook, 576 pages

Published April 20th 2011 by Del Rey (first published 1992)

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Feb 11, 2008 Robert Beveridge rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: finished, owned-and-gave-away

Harry Turtledove, Guns of the South (Del Rey, 1992)

Time to make shish kebab out of another sacred cow. Guns of the South is considered THE alternate history novel by many, the one alternate history novel that should be required reading in history classes and on just about every historian's list of must-read Civil War books. And to be fair, it's almost that good. Really.

As with most fiction of the speculative type, especially alternate-history speculative fiction, the plot can be summed up by ask...more

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Jul 29, 2007 Thomas rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: anyone and everyone

This is a great book. The cover has Robert E. Lee with an Ak-47 so you know it isn't your standard book. Even though a Confederate victory via time travel is far fetched, it isn't the main part of the book. It has much more to do with the Confederate States as a nation and how it comes to terms with it's own internal problems as well as facing a racism borne out of hatred (by the time travelers), as opposed to their racism based out of ignorance.

The time travelers from a decade ahead of our own...more

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Jun 04, 2007 Joel rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: Civil War buffs

Turtledove has a unique way of blending science fiction with history. The way he conveys accounts identify him as a master of history and research. In fact, if he were to publish text books in this manner (without the Sci-Fi obviously), the nation's history I.Q. would rise rather sharply.
It's truly one of those "can't put it down" novels. The way he recreates past events and images with his "twists", shows a mind that thinks outside the box.
"Enfield, Springfield, throw them in the cornfield"....more

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Mar 09, 2013 Bruce rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

I’m a sucker for well-executed counterfactual history. Throw in time travel, and well, Bob’s your uncle. Especially if Bob is Robert E. Lee, the non-slave-owning, first to be offered Union military leadership Lee.

The premise of White Supremacists getting access to time travel—please, if they’re stupid enough to be racists, they’re unlikely to be able to think far enough ahead to plan something involving time travel—may be a bridge too far, but the historical interweaving is certainly intriguing....more

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Feb 16, 2013 Georgia James rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition Recommends it for: Those with an interest in alternate history

Recommended to Georgia by: My Uncle

Shelves: historical-fiction-read

A fascinating insight into what might have happened had the US Civil War (or, War Between the States) might have gone if the South had won.

The first eighth or so is sometimes a little hard going- a lot of talking without much action. It's a little strange to read too, not least because AK-47 and General Lee are not often seen together in the same sentence. If you're unused to American grammar/spelling/dialect words you're probably going to struggle a little too. Not much, but enough to have irr...more

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Jul 17, 2012 Justin rated it 2 of 5 stars · review of another edition

The Premise: White nationalist Afrikaaners travel back in time and equip Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia with fully automatic AK-47 rifles on the eve of the Battle for the Wilderness in 1864. Hijinks ensue.

That's it, really. Guns of the South is simply that premise followed to one possible conclusion. Though the premise is fantastical, it is slyly subversive: in following the most popular general "what if" of alternate history (South Wins the Civil War), Turtledove is able to prey on t...more The Premise: White nationalist Afrikaaners travel back in time and equip Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia with fully automatic AK-47 rifles on the eve of the Battle for the Wilderness in 1864. Hijinks ensue.

That's it, really. Guns of the South is simply that premise followed to one possible conclusion. Though the premise is fantastical, it is slyly subversive: in following the most popular general "what if" of alternate history (South Wins the Civil War), Turtledove is able to prey on the vanity and insecurity of the modern day "Lost Cause" sympathizer by juxtaposing those ostensibly racist Southerners with those even more racist late 20th Century South Africans.

We see the triumphant Confederates chastened and cognizant of the error of their ways (slavery), so much so that they join up with their Union foes to vanquish the schemes of the two-dimensionally evil Afrikaaners. What's puzzling is that, for someone who is so notoriously conspicuous with his various reminders to the reader that he's Done His Research, Harry Turtledove refuses to recognize the historic reality that a) caused the Civil War, and b) made many of his historical characters (particularly the Southerners) so unsympathetic. Even Nathan Bedford Forrest, the butcher of Fort Pillow and founder of the Ku Klux Klan, is rehabilitated under the magic of Turtledove's prose. Forrest is Not Bad After All, once Saint Robert E. Lee's beatific influence is felt.

One might say "Hey, it's fiction, what's the big deal?" The big deal is that the author is by design using the allure of a well known historical era, with its well known cast of historical characters, to get people to read his book. Playing around with "what if"s can be fun and useful in fiction (cf. Ward Moore's Bring the Jubilee). But some counterfactuals are simply nonsensical, illogical, and offer prime examples of begging the question. "What If Hitler Didn't Invade the Soviet Union?" is a good example: anyone with a grasp of the primary sources understands that the only way for that to have been avoided was for Hitler (and by extension, the Nazis) to have never come into power in Germany in the first place, and so posing the question makes no sense. "What if the Civil War Wasn't About Slavery/Race/etc?" is the proposition underlying the more superficial counterfactual in Guns of the South involving South Africans and AK-47s. That underlying proposition is necessary, because without it, there's no way to make many of Turtledove's protagonists as likable and sympathetic as he demands. To pose that question is silly, and renders moot the era to which Turtledove would have us journey.(less)

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May 23, 2012 Bart Breen rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Entertaining and Thought Provoking

Turtledove's Guns of the South, provides a rollicking good read as well as a great deal of insight into some of the common causes cited for the Civil War and why so many factors contributed to the Confederacy's defeat.

A fair criticism can be made that this book is not alternative history in the purest sense of the word. A more common scenario in such tales might more practically be derived from something like having the South win at Gettysburg. However, the addi...more

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May 15, 2012 Sean Arthur rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Half masturbatory Robert E. Lee fanfic, half apologia for the South...

Honestly, the concept is brilliant--white supremacists go back in time, help the South win the Civil War with AKs, and it just goes on from there. But man, I lost count of the number of times someone said the war was about keeping slaves, only to be shouted down by people saying that no, really it was about freedom and states' rights. For crying out loud.

Aside from that (which isn't all that bad, it just stands out once you no...more

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May 06, 2012 Allan Dyen-shapiro rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

I found this book very interesting. Disclaimer: I think the Civil War is probably the most boring era of US history, and I think military histories are the most boring form of history. So, as I'm giving this five stars, if you have even a passing interest in the Civil War or military history, you will love this.

An alternative history novel in which the South wins the Civil War. But with a twist. Afrikaners upset at equality in post-apartheid South Africa have build a time machine and traveled ba...more I found this book very interesting. Disclaimer: I think the Civil War is probably the most boring era of US history, and I think military histories are the most boring form of history. So, as I'm giving this five stars, if you have even a passing interest in the Civil War or military history, you will love this.

An alternative history novel in which the South wins the Civil War. But with a twist. Afrikaners upset at equality in post-apartheid South Africa have build a time machine and traveled back from 2014 to 1864. The time machine can only go back a precise 150 years--that elicited a grimace from the science fiction aficionado in me--too contrived. They want the South to win, because they want apartheid to win later in history.

However, the characters were amazing. The story shifts between two points of view--that of General Robert E. Lee and that of a corporal, based on a real person. This corporal was interesting--a schoolteacher telling of his view of the war. But a secondary character in his narrative was fascinating, all the more so because she was based on a real person. A prostitute, bored with her life, who disguises herself as a man so she could fight as a soldier. She fights bravely and is fully accepted by her whole company even though they see through her facade. She and the schoolteacher fall in love.

Robert E. Lee is also very interesting. How this Southern gentleman would react to all the events precipitated by the provision of AK-47's to the Confederacy is fascinating. The political factions that develop as the story goes on are also very interesting.

The other plus in this book is the exquisite detail. The thought to which he put into the state-by-state results of the elections of 1864 in the Confederacy and 1867 in the remaining US was mind-boggling. The details of life of the Civil War soldiers and Lee's gentleman existence in Virginia society were also tremendously precise--truly transporting the reader into this world.

Alternative history is not the most frequently written type of science fiction; indeed, I can think of very few well-written ones. This is one of the best I've read.

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Apr 14, 2012 Chi Laskowsavich rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Wow, a great book. A new genre for me, and definitely a good choice to start me off. I learned a lot about life during the civil war. I had forgotten how primitive weaponry, battlefield medicine, industrial mechanization, and much other science was at this time.

This book also really puts the slavery question into focus. Certainly it was best to end slavery in the south, but was the historical path the best one? This book rethings the road out of slavery for the CSA, which I found really interes...more

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Jun 30, 2011 Zachary Kline added it · review of another edition

Strange as the premise may seem, this novel works quite well. It is a plausible look at what might have happened had the Confederacy somehow managed to get its hands on advanced weaponry and the expertise required to use it. Time traveling is as good a reason as any for Robert E Lee to be holding an Uzi, as the author says, and the inherent ridiculousness of the image is tempered by the seriousness of the novel as a whole.
This book doesn't shy away from addressing the issue of slavery, and in f...more

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Jul 04, 2010 David McClelland rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: alternate-history, science-fiction

Perhaps the only one of Turtledoves novels that I would call truly excellent. Unlike many of his sagas, there's no bloated and exposition heavy storytelling here, just a tightly constructed alternate history with a neat science-fiction twist.

Again, unlike many of his other books, characters are a strength here, bolstered, I think, by the fact that he choses just a few people to focus on, rather than the dozens of on-going characters he usually fills his works with. Robert E. Lee is an interesti...more

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Jan 22, 2013 Lauren rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: brilliant, sci-fi-fantasy, reviewed, historicalwhatsis

In a world where the South won the American Civil War...

Harry Turtledove is a particularly interesting writer. He plays in lands that are similar to our own, but is capable of fully extrapolating along the lines of "what if." His butterfly effect here, of course, is the introduction of the AK-47 to 1864 Confederacy just before the Wilderness, and the world explodes from there.

Mild-to-moderate spoilers follow.

(view spoiler)...more In a world where the South won the American Civil War...

Harry Turtledove is a particularly interesting writer. He plays in lands that are similar to our own, but is capable of fully extrapolating along the lines of "what if." His butterfly effect here, of course, is the introduction of the AK-47 to 1864 Confederacy just before the Wilderness, and the world explodes from there.

Mild-to-moderate spoilers follow.

(view spoiler)[

I'm not the biggest Civil War historian (my father could probably fight for that particular title, though, and he recommended this book to me), but from what I know, the accuracy of the book makes it worth reading. Yes, the South wins the Civil War. This is the big draw of the book. It's on the cover. But that point happens just barely a third of the way in, and there are still hundreds of pages left. This isn't just explaining that 20th-century weaponry is better than 19th and that the South becomes the comeback underdogs. This is a story about how the world changes around the South.

Admittedly, some of it is a bit overblown. The ending in particular feels quite a bit too idyllic for my tastes when it comes to the South versus the rest of the world. I also would have liked to know more about the changed world at large, beyond the few clips we get via newspapers and references to other wars. The U.S. basically falls apart (which it very well could have, worst case scenario). Canada turns into a warzone. Yet somehow the C.S.A. escapes all of this relatively unscathed, even to the point of beginning to end slavery?

Turtledove does a brilliant job in pointing out that some of these last events could never have happened, even if the South had won the Civil War, without the interference of the Afrikaners from 2014. The politicians (and Lee) would never have truly seen the error of slavery without seeing it from the books of the future. But why did the Afrikaners bring those particular books? Did they not have any of their own that supported slavery? Why did they want to stay in the 1860s when they could have returned to their time as soon as the South won the war? This leads to an ending that, while satisfying, is not as enjoyable as everything that came before as Turtledove explored what the Confederacy could have looked like.

But these questions are minute in the larger scale of things. Characters and events are both historically accurate, as far as a sci-fi alternate-universe novel go, and incredibly entertaining. General Lee in particular is heroic, thoughtful, and incredibly human. The other P.O.V. character is also very interesting, although I definitely felt myself more drawn to Lee than Caudel. It's fairly obvious Turtledove (as many people do) find Lee to be a fascinating and interesting person, not just character. To be honest, I could not agree more. His story is what kept me through the book, especially as it moves from the advertized Civil War Alt!Fic to a political drama more composed of talking than shooting.

(hide spoiler)]

All in all, Guns of the South is a fantastic look at what could have happened if the Civil War had been won by the South and not the North. Although there are many quibbles, I still found myself drawn into this alternate universe. Guns of the South proves why Harry Turtledove is considered by many to be the king of alternate history.
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Apr 06, 2010 Kathryn rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: historical-fiction, hard-to-describe, fiction

At first glance, this seems like one of the sillier ideas out there. "Oo, what would happen if somebody traveled back in time and supplied the Confederacy with AK-47's?" Sounds like an excuse to make a "300"-style movie, with lots of improbable action scenes and Confederate soldiers toting around modern weapons while gritting out one-liners as they mow down the Union troops.

Surprisingly, this is a LOT more than that. Turtledove looks, really LOOKS, at what would happen if the Confederacy gained...more

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Sep 06, 2011 John rated it 2 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Am I a bad history grad student for reading this? Probably...
I shouldn't have bothered with this. It was really poorly written in parts, especially any time dialogue had to provide some kind of exposition, and plus it made me feel a little dirty to have to root for the Confederates, as they are the heroes of the book. I knew the basic plot: a group of 21st Century racist South Africans travel back in time and give AK-47s to the Confederates so they will win the Civil War. What I didn't realize w...more Am I a bad history grad student for reading this? Probably...
I shouldn't have bothered with this. It was really poorly written in parts, especially any time dialogue had to provide some kind of exposition, and plus it made me feel a little dirty to have to root for the Confederates, as they are the heroes of the book. I knew the basic plot: a group of 21st Century racist South Africans travel back in time and give AK-47s to the Confederates so they will win the Civil War. What I didn't realize was that the South Africans don't just leave, they hang around to be a major plot point throughout the book. Why do they hang around? So that the author can constantly compare them with the Confederates and imply that the Confederates weren't all that racist. Turtledove fills the book with South African characters mistreating slaves, and Confederates like Robert E. Lee coming to the slaves' defense. He even goes so far as to have the South African characters buy slaves and horribly abuse them, so he can have Confederates 'rescue' them. The plot of the book turns on R.E. Lee winning the war and almost immediately becoming an open and vocal abolitionist, which is completely nonsensical. And as I said before, the exposition is horribly clunky, with people saying things like "As I'm sure you know, General Lee, because you are a student of our politics, our Confederate constitution, which was passed in 1861, provides for a six year presidential term." Groan.
I will say this for Turtledove: he is creative in his ideas about how history would have progressed in the aftermath of a Confederate victory. He goes into great detail about the subsequent presidential elections in the North and the South, about what would happen to a Lincoln who lived, about relations between the U.S. and Britain if Britain recognized the Confederates, about what would happen to the border states, etc. All of that is interesting. But when you combine the awkward writing with this picture of the rebels as a group of people hardly racist and almost ready to give up slavery on their own...I can't really recommend this book. (less)

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Aug 11, 2011 Jeremiah Depta rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

This book belongs in my top ten collection. Although this book was sometimes very dry, and very difficult to get through, I fount it to be a very honest portrayal of an alternative history. I was very pleased to see that the Union Army and its leaders were not portrayed as a bunch of saviors to the African American people, and was equally glad to see that the Confederates were not portrayed as a bunch of racist Neanderthals, although, the issues regarding racism and its effects on the war and Am...more

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Apr 02, 2010 Cait rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

I started this book with a few preconceptions, most of which were shattered well before the book ended. This was the first of Turtledove's novels I've read, and I'm absolutely going to be reading more.

This book meanders through half a decade of political turmoil, and how it affects the lives of both the prominent historical figures of the time and the every day citizen. Just as much of the book is dedicated to what happens after the war as during it, and the impact a group of time travelers with...more

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Jun 18, 2009 Marky rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

The confederates are at the brink of losing the civil war. Then comes a man named Andries Rhoodie and he offers Robert E. Lee a weapon that would turn the war around. He offers Lee the AK-47, a remarkable gun. The AK-47 remarkabley wins the war for Lee.
It was interesting looking into the "past that never was." I learned from this book that the confederates were simply fighting for their homeland. Most confederates didn't own slaves and were simply fighting for their land. Robert E. Lee was fig...more

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Mar 21, 2012 Albert rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here. The Good:

1. Caudell/Mollie

2. AK-47s Vs Springfields, and the corresponding accounts of slaughter, torment, and battlefield horrors.

3. The Afrikaner Remnant Terrorists (known here as AWB) being treated like Cartoon Villains. They deserve every minute of it!

4. Lincoln and Lee at the White House

The Bad:

1. General Robert E. Lee = Captain Jean Luc Picard, Statesman Extraordinaire! Buy a copy of his memoirs now and get a free talking action figure, with real gentleMANly demeanor!

The Ugly:

1. The Confed...more

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Jul 11, 2010 Tom rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: favorites

Phew! This was one of those lost weekend books. I haven't had a reading experience like that in about a decade or so.

I guess, fortunately, I've been sick, so I've had the ability to read more or less to my heart's content.

You will learn from this book, but not in the "learning is fun" kind of way--in the way that you'll know the history like you know a good friend. You don't remember just how you learned it, you just did.

And yet you'll also be transported by a skillful piece of science fiction...more

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Jan 20, 2013 John Betts rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: alternate-history

Turtledove uses a low-grade sci-fi movie technique of white racists from South Africa travelling back in time to change the course of history by helping the South attain victory against the United States and achieving its independence by use of sophisticated weapons of the future, chiefly the AK-47. It is hoped by this band that victory for the slave-holding Confederacy would make the "white man's" cause of racial supremacy succeed and avoid such things as black-majority rule in South Africa. Ye...more

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Apr 23, 2013 Gary rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

A group of apartheid-era Afrikaners time-travels to the American South during our Civil War to arm the Confederate army with AK-47s. The South wins. Lincoln loses the 1864 election and returns to Illinois to practice law. Robert E. Lee wins the Confederate presidency.

It's too bad the novel had to include the time-travel element, because the sci-fi/action scenes were the least engaging element of the book for me. I was bored when most of a chapter was devoted to how to dissemble and clean an AK-4...more

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Feb 13, 2009 Lew rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Despite having a few elements of science fiction, this was a fully believable portrayal of the American Civil War from the Confederate point of view. It's obvious that Turtledove did some painstaking research to make the events and people as accurate as possible. The plot had a few unexpected twists, but even the more predictable events were written well enough to make me keep going. The characters were a likeable lot (even some of the villains), but I especially enjoyed Turtledove's portrayal o...more

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Apr 11, 2013 Eddy Allen rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: arts-and-historical

Northern Virginia is ragged and ill-equipped. The battle of Gettysburg has broken the back of the Confederacy and decimated its manpower.

Then Andries Rhoodie, a strange man with an unplaceable accent, approaches Lee with an extraordinary offer. Rhoodie demonstrates an amazing rifle; its rate of fire is incredible, its lethal efficiency breathtaking--and Rhoodie guarantees unlimited quantities to the Confederates.

The name of the weapon is the AK-47.

"As a Civil War historian, I literally could not...more

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Mar 03, 2013 Doug Mowry rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Intriguing "What If" of history. The American Civil War of the 1860s could have gone either way, sometimes balanced on a knife's edge of a few, seemingly random sets of circumstances. Harry Turtledove, nicknamed the "Master of Alternate History," has imagined a history of the South's victory and the years following.

The first in a series of books following this diverging historical crossroads, this is the only one in which an external stimulus is introduced as the cause of the divergence. Here,...more

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Apr 01, 2013 Sue rated it 2 of 5 stars · review of another edition

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here.

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May 24, 2011 o2b-rainf3 rated it 4 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Turtledove is a genius at picking new ways to scrutinize historical circumstances. What if the North did not overwhelm the South with technology and industry? What if the South were given an edge in addition to the ones it obtained simply by breaking out of the quagmire of government bureaucracy and military nepotism that plagued the North in the early part of the Civil War? I had a problem with the means Harry chose to give them that edge, but there's no mistaking the genius of his premise. Put...more

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Apr 11, 2012 Will rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

This book answers the question of what would happen if a group of time travelers equipped the confederacy with modern weapons. It ends up being a pretty solid read if you have any interest in history or sci-fi.

The best part is what happened when I left it laying around and my sister started reading it. She was reading in bed and she kept complaining to her husband that the battles were wrong. She was telling him how the author got the dates, locations, and outcomes wrong. She was a few chapters...more

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Sep 07, 2011 Ted rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

This book was one of my first dives into the world of Harry Turtledove and AH/SF. He is to me, the grand master of this genre. His knowledge of the period is well grounded and comes across in the story with full detail and colour. Mr Turtledove brings well know historical figures to life and they leap off the page. I have found that his one off stories such as this one to be the best works that he produces. I have read and re-read this book numerous times. I plan to continue to do so for many ye...more

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May 16, 2013 John Schneider rated it 3 of 5 stars · review of another edition

Shelves: fiction

Although I gave this book three stars, it really is 2.5 stars on account of how uneven it is. I have read a few alternative history novels as well as sci-fi stories that transposed historical events into future realities. Accordingly, I have some experience reading works like "Guns of the South." What is so frustrating to me was how better this novel could have been. Allow me to explain without spoiling the plot.
Mr. Turtledove begins his novel with a fairly good idea - allow the South to win the...more

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About Harry Turtledove

Dr Harry Norman Turtledove is an American novelist, who has produced a sizeable number of works in several genres including alternate history, historical fiction, fantasy and science fiction.

Harry Turtledove attended UCLA, where he received a Ph.D. in Byzantine history in 1977.

Turtledove has been dubbed "The Master of Alternate History". Within this genre he is known both for creating original sce...more

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